New American snowboarder wants to carve!

[SWriverstone]

Hello:

I am a 42-year-old American (living in West Virginia) who just started snowboarding. From the start, my interest in snowboarding was different. I am not interested in freestyle riding, half-pipes, or tricks. Rather, I want to slalom down the mountain with grace, control and style.

I was disappointed that all snowboarders here in the US just want to jump (ollie) spin, and grab (with lots of side-slipping all the way). I knew there must be a better way for me.

Then I discovered extremecarving.com! Wow! This is great! Your technique is exactly what I want to learn---smooth and efficient. Now I am wishing I had a different snowboard---one better for Alpine boarding.

I currently have a 159cm Rossignol Premier board with soft boots. I don't know how well it will work, but I plan to begin working on my carving technique with this board. (Will I have much trouble?)

-----
I love the difference of Alpine boarding and carving. I am also a whitewater paddler...but I do not kayak---I paddle a C-1, which (I believe) is similar to Alpine carving because it is rare and special.

QUESTION: Are there any relatively low-cost snowboards which can easily be bought here in the US for Alpine carving? Or must I spend lots of money to buy imported board, boots and bindings? (I have already spent thousands on composite kayaks and hang gliders! I'm going broke!)

ALSO: What is the best foot angle for Alpine carving technique? With both feet at a forward-pointing angle? (Should I change my foot position?)

Thanks,
Scott in USA

[tigger]

welcome scott,
you re in the right place , just read a bit in the forum (use search to find the right threads), and the technique section, watch the movies, and ask.
btw youll be surprised about the enthusiastic alpine scene in amerika.
have a look at www.bomberonline.com , they sell gear and know everything thats available in the US.
...first step should be to get some hardboots and bindings, you can mount them on your freerider and get a first impression.
have fun

[SWriverstone]

Thanks Tigger...I've been pouring through the posts here, watching movies and checking other sites---it's a whole new world of snowboarding!

Now all I am wondering is...can I work on *any* EC technique on my freeride/freestyle board with soft boots?

Scott

[nils]

Welcome aboard Scott

We are explaining here a technique which is basically rotation turns, with economy of moves, pushing during turns, and going uphill almost before tilting the board on the other edge. This technique pushed to the max leads to EC, but you don't need to lay down on all your turns to have fun!

Other great source of information closer to you is as earlier mentioned www.bomberonline.com with its nice forum and huge community of riders. People where you are use usually narrower board than we do, but the rotation technique can be practice on any snow machine!

www.alpinecarving.com is a informative page that will explain you LOT of things too!

As for doing EC with softies and soft board, it is possible but the limits will be given by the gear... But it can be a start to learn proper rotation turns !

Nils

[roger]

Scott,

(...) I am not interested in freestyle riding, half-pipes, or tricks. Rather, I want to slalom down the mountain with grace, control and style.

If you are serious about going for a full carving setup, I'd recommend to get proper gear as recommended by the extremecarving, bomber, catek, alpinecarving, etc.. people. These sites with forums should be a good starting point for further knowledge, gear recommendations, classifeds, reviews and discussion. eBay is a good spot to bargain hunt second-hand carving gear.

As Nils said, doing EC on a soft setup depends a lot on the gear and set up of the board and bindings. One "soft" board that I have been able to do laid out turns is the F2 Eliminator LTD, but with the soft bindings it's only good to a certain speed, then boots, board and binding reach their limit and begs for slower speeds. However, if you are content with low speed laid out turns then I would recommend a F2 board with your "old" bindings and boots. I've seen F2's on eBay for decent prices.

eBay search Link

Good luck and carve low!

Roger

[SWriverstone]

Thanks again for the good info guys! I was on the piste last night with my girlfriend Holly, and we both dedicated the whole night to practicing proper rotation turns. Wow! What a difference!

We were focused intensely on NOT skidding or sideslipping---trying to do "quiet" runs...also remaining vertical, and initiating turns with rotation. It made a BIG difference...we both felt like we were suddenly boarding much better!

Interestingly, we were also turning (slaloming) much more than anyone else on the mountain---everyone else was just bombing straight down the slope.

It is very common in the Eastern US for people to turn by forcefully "kicking" the tail of the board out to the side (of course skidding a lot too). This seems so inefficient and looks silly!

A few times I experienced the "slingshot effect," or accelerating in a good carving turn---it made me want more!

NOTE: Though we cannot buy carving gear right now, we plan to continue working on the technique. I am also going to change the angle of my bindings. Right now, my rear foot is angled slightly backwards (like freestyle riders), but I want to turn both feet more forwards, similar to EC riding. (I will never need to go backwards, so why have my feet that way?)

Thanks,
Scott

PS - I will check out the other links and forums!

[NardaF]

QUESTION: Are there any relatively low-cost snowboards which can easily be bought here in the US for Alpine carving? Or must I spend lots of money to buy imported board, boots and bindings? (I have already spent thousands on composite kayaks and hang gliders! I'm going broke!)

Hi Scott-

I'm new here too, and I am from the U.S. Me & my husband bought practically all of our stuff either from Bomber Online or Blue Tomato in Austria (check out their website), as well as from local dealers years ago when they still sold alpine boards & gear. I know how difficult it is to get alpine gear in the U.S., and probably increasingly so in Europe.

Actually, the cheapest (and best) boards I bought between 2001 and 2003 from Blue Tomato when the Euro was low and the dollar was still strong. (Now you can forget it!). We did not buy new boards but always asked for test boards and/or last year's model or test boards. We were extremely and pleasantly surprised when the boards arrived only 2 days later: they all looked like new--beautifully retuned, waxed & cleaned!!

During those 2 to 3 years we bought from them: 3 F2 Silberpfeils (156, 162, 168); 1 F2 Speedster SL, 1 GTS Speedster, 1 Fat Carve, and 2 pairs of Raichle & Deeluxe boots. We were extremely happy with their service. At the time, I don't remember having paid much more than the equivalent of $300 for each of the Silberpfeils. Now a new one seems to cost >$600.00! We also have an array of other (older) European boards (Burton, Rossi, Jester), but we both like the Silberpfeils best. (The reason why we kept buying alpine boards compulsively, is probably we were hoping to get progressively better with each new & improved board, which was only partially true, LOL)

Since we are older (54 and 66 but still in reasonable good shape, unlike some of our contemporaries), we have all the stuff we'll ever need in this regard!!! Anyway, I call myself a reasonable good recreational carver, who wishes to be able to carve like our 2 Swiss extreme boys! Well, I'm still outspeeding many of those teenies on their "lunch tray" boards, and they always do a double-take when they actually see that a middle-aged woman has just passed them at high speed! But then they usually make comments such as "Cool", and "Wow!".

Hoping to learn from this forum and meeting interesting & likeminded carvers.

[SWriverstone]

Great info Narda (is that your name?). I'll definitely be looking into some used alpine gear and hard boots.

In the meantime, I'm still learning the basics and playing with my stance angle.

I went out last night with both my feet cranked WAY forward (both around 60 degrees). I felt almost useless at that angle with my soft boots and board! Based on advice from the Bomber message board, I backed off to 45/front and 40 rear...that should be better!

I'm a former whitewater slalom kayak racer...which has a lot in common with carving. Slalom kayaks are long, fast, and have sharp edges which you use to accelerate in turns. So the whole carving mentality feels very natural to me.

Scott

[Marc Andre Panet-Raymond]

Hey buddy, welcome to a new world. So far you've gotten great info and you'll find that this community is great for that. I 'm recommend that you get all the info you can and wait an search at bomberonline in the calassified section for your gear. But first go to www.alpinecarving.com which is the Carvers almanac. These guys will spell out absolutely everything you could possibly ever want to know and more!!! Then go to bomber and check out the classified scene you'll dig it! Have fun!

Marc

[NardaF]

You are right, Scott, about "cross-training" in other sports! We are manic catamaran sailors & windsurfers in the summer (living right at Lake Michigan and having thousands of smaller lakes in Wisconsin & Michigan). The ability to balance well, and very good core strength come in extremely handy when hanging out on a trapeze while you're skippering a 20ft catamaran in brisk winds. Similar requirements with carving - at least I find it so.

I wish we had more opportunity to ride our boards more regularly. Illinois is a very flat state, but we have a great ski hill 1 hour north in Wisconsin. Laughable to some but the core group who is using that hill is from Eastern Europe (mostly Polish), and they are the most able group I've ever seen. They've got the best & latest equipment, ski & board like gods, etc. All in all, we do get lots of vertical feet under our belt in a season in the Midwest.

We go out West or to the Dolomites (my favorite area) at times - but at the lift ticket prices in U.S. resorts (>$75/day), or the miserably low dollar, it really takes a chunk out of your bank account!

Scott, I still would check w/Blue Tomato toward the end of the season and see whether they have test boards / last year's models. I still think their prices are better than Bomber's (even with shipping etc.). I was fortunate when I bought my stuff there since I picked some of it up at my mom's address in Germany where I had it mailed (postage was free to Germany, and I just packed up the boards & put them in my luggage.