Negative Swoard review (not by me!)

[Bordy]

Jack thanks for the thread nice to see anyone visiting the site.

I’m glad you guys read the review, and I was very surprised by the ride of the Swoard just as you are by my review.

I ride lots off different gear and feel the time I spent (4 runs) was enough to judge the ride of the Swoard.

As for the speed I think it is important to note it was very warm around 54 degrees F and I was riding several very steep pitches as well as mellow groomers between pitches. The snow was soft and I could easily dig 4 to 6 inch deep trenches under full load in the middle of the turn.

The soft spring snow not only limited my speed but gave great support to really stand on the Swoard. It folded at around the speeds I indicate, at full lean, under full throttle, in the steeps, trying to Extreme Carve on it. It did perform well at slower cruising speeds and on mellow pitches.

I rode the swoard with the EC guys’ stance recommendations for cant and angles and feel as though I did a good job putting it though its paces with a honest attempt to maintain the EC style. I did try to ride the Swoard with several types of style and input changes, and found its flex and ride characteristics very quickly and was pleased with the slow speed handling.

I had also just jumped off one of Klugs’ old SG board with a 20.5 waist and a much larger radius. So the board width change and new stance angles felt plenty comfy after riding that Wide SG stick. Plus because off the soft spring snow I was riding the very soft and spongy Burton race plate. So the jump into a Catek was a welcomed surprise. (all-tough I do ride Cateks and Bomber T1 and 2s through out the year on different sticks). I also was very used to the catek and charged right into The Swoard.

I am lucky enough to ride many different boards. The photos of the Madd at the web site were also my first and only day riding that board and my new Indy’s fist day out, also. The shots we shot in the spring; 3-24-04 on Klugs old SG stick was my first day on that board as well. I also have an entire fleet of demo soft boot boards at my disposal and try to ride them all.
I probably ride over 40 different shapes a year not including industry demos.

I am happy to answer any question about any of my reviews at Hardbooter.com or here at BOL.

I just picked up 2 Doneks from Pete Thorndike last week they have both been his race stick at some point. Look for me to do a review on what I am hoping are some of Doneks best shapes and some serious binding showdowns, soon as the resorts open!





EC forum extras.

Some have asked of my size I am 175 cm and about 77 Kilos placing me under the 175h (board tested) size, however I did not feel out gunned.

I Do believe the Swoard has a great ride and feel for the EC style of riding, also for the style outline on this site it performs well as I stated in the article It does have a Niche it feels that has been vacant in the US market since board dropped to 19cm waists in the mid 90’s, perhaps ending when the Rossi race turned into the throttle.

The boys here put out a great board that feels a Niche in the US market and is well suited for the EC style of turn. But as Jacques points out the board disappoint me when pushed out side of the EC style of turn. When changing edges under full load across the fall line is not considered a EC initiation. However I did feel it was important to mention because you may have to start a turn any where in the previous turn to change direction for any reason to avoid anything or one, and it is at what point the board failed to smoothly start or finish the turn, which I felt was important.

Its important to remember as with any rider and gear combo that; it is the choice of rider to find the gear that fits their style and as neutral as I am in the EC- Racer style difference it is important that they be treated differently. But when I ride a board I look at how it rides all together. This board has some strong points, which I felt as though I pointed out.
I would be unfair to not point out what I felt were its weak points.

I would love the chance to ride a Swoard again in the size the EC guys feel is fit. I can be reached via e-mail and would love to place one in the Hardbooter demo fleet.

Soon we will have some more reviews on other boards and gear at Hardbooter.com Please check them out as well At some point I am sure I will ride a board that doesn’t Extreme Carve as well as this Swoard and will be sure to point it out. (Matter of fact I Know its coming soon.)

Billy
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[D-Sub]

hey Billy...a thread at bomber made me think about something...and maybe the SWOARD guys can answer this...but...is there an ideal tune for this board? tip/tail detune? anything else?

perhaps the board you rode wasnt tuned properly?

[István]

Guys,

I've just went through hardbooter.com. I'm happy that there are other alpine related sites emerging, I hope that will make this sport more popular.

It is also good that there are test reports by other riders from different angles. Everyone can choose which approach is more acceptable for him/her.

There is only one thing I'd like to point out. When I first visited extremecarving.com I have seen things I could not (and cannot) do in terms of carving. That caught my eye and made me come back to this site basically every day.

When I went to hardbooter.com and viewed all the pics I have not seen anything that I could not do. Of course, those guys can be way better carvers than myself, but than why not putting some pics or videos on the site that really catches the eye? (I think Nils also pointed outs something similar above).


Kindest,

István

[pokkis]

They have some shots, which atleast i can not do like:
http://hardbooter.com/gallery/wtc04/IMG00985
But another issue is that do i want to even learn

[fivat]

Some have asked of my size I am 175 cm and about 77 Kilos placing me under the 175h (board tested) size, however I did not feel out gunned.

175H ? Argh! No good at all...

I'm 177 cm, 79 kilos, what is very close to your size and weight.
But I use a 168H (what is recommended in the Board selection).
(note that the 175H is harder than the 168H - not only longer)

Even with the 175M (Jacques' board) I can't carve like in the videos So I would not try a 175H !!

I would love the chance to ride a Swoard again in the size the EC guys feel is fit. I can be reached via e-mail and would love to place one in the Hardbooter demo fleet.

I didn't meet you at the SES '04 in Aspen
So you should come to the ECS '05 in Zinal (Switzerland): we will give you the proper Swoard (my own board if you wish)

Patrice Fivat

[D-Sub]

They have some shots, which atleast i can not do like:
http://hardbooter.com/gallery/wtc04/IMG00985
But another issue is that do i want to even learn

heh. thats certainly unrelated to EC, but being able to throw a nose press on a rail in hardboots on a huge board definitely takes skill, and the way I see it would add to the weight of the rider in questions opinion

[István]

Can you imagine me sliding on a piece of metal on my razor sharp Virus? It's like a nightmare....

Cheers,

István

[Bordy]

Patrice,

Thanks for the honest beta about your board and the differences in size. I would love to ride the 68H. However I have no plans to travel to Europe this year. I will keep an eye out for anyone sporting a Swoard as I do see a few every year here in the states. I am sure I will get a chance to ride one again. My quiver does range in size from 149s up to 195s and up I ride a lot of different sizes and shapes And felt as though I really gave the Swoard a fair ride.

It may also be important to note that in the review I stated the board became unstable in the upper 20s that means around 40-45 km/h the board began to react different and perform unlike it did at the slower speeds.

Everyone else.

I also gave several very positive remarks regarding the Swoard that have of course been overlooked on the BOL site, that many of your EC posters have been kind enough to point out. I have not ridden a large amount of high end hand made carving product from Europe and think it is only fair to mention the large difference in performance between a handmade North American world cup race stock product and the Swoard. After all most High end carvers in the states are looking to Donek, Proir, and Coiler as their board suppliers and are, as I was, expecting a similar amount of stability and dampness at speed from the Swoard as well, only it was not quite there yet. I do believe the swoard fills a niche you have done a great job in developing and believe the Review clearly stated that. I as a rider I thank you and your EC crew for striving to keep Hardbooting innovative and fresh, the swoard defiantly cuts the cord unlike any other product out there and due to its width allows some interesting riding style and technique. I do honestly feel there are other alpine boards out there that hold a better carved turn at much higher speeds and it would be unfair as an unbiased reviewer not to include that info. Also my closing statement of some free ride models that I rode on the same hill as the swoard on the same or following day, although unwelcome on either site reflect the overall stability of several top freeride sticks with a wide waist that I felt held up to the riding characteristics of the swoard some times even maintaining a better flex pattern within the speed limits of each product. It is fare to say the swoard can be ridden harder than any twin tip small radius free ride board, basied on shape and flex alone but when you include the control, stability, and dampness of many high end free ride sticks that do not display the nose bounce or tail fold like the swoard did in the same condition at speed should be normal considering the budget many large company invest into R&D.


Thank you for visiting Hardbooter.com and reading the reveiw. I have also posted reviews about other products that have not created such a buzz online I hope you enjoyed them also and welcome any feedback.

[Hans]

Yes, Bordy. I want to reply to your answers, review at Hardbooter.com and replies over here. I am just irritated about reviews that aren't well prepared by reviewers or reviews that are written by reviewers who have a lack of good knowledge on how to write a good review. Your review is just like this one.

In advance, I think you are a very experienced alpineracer, but not an experienced ECcarver.

Thanks again. You only created the buzz because of these things:

- SWOARD riders in general are very satisfied with their product. So if you choose/test a SWOARD, test the right boardsize of a SWOARD which fits your length, bootmondo and weight. But that problem has been made clear to you already now I think. Just test a SWOARD what he is made for: ECcarving at well groomed corduroy pists.

- if you place a review of a board just ride the right board what it's made for. Make a review of a board that fits you or don't write a review at all. Make right comparisons. Don't compare a SWOARD with a freerideboard. You don't compare a Porsche 911 with a JEEP 4x4 riding in soft mud conditions what you are doing right now. People would jump into false conclusions like your review is applying to. Yes you can ride a SWOARD in soft conditions, no it's not a freerideboard. It's an all mountainboard with excellent behavior for ECcarving with excellent edgehold and stability, ride the right size of a board under conditions what the board is made for.

- if you write a review of a product you must be aware of the product you test, you weren't for sure if I read your review. You didn't know a thing about the SWOARD when you tested it. I made this conclusion because you tested the wrong board for your size and weight and you made wrong comparisons. Also you tested it at very soft snow. If you were a good reviewer, you hadn't have written this review. Prepare yourself when you want to test a board, study your product before you review it.


So I am not criticizing you as a snowboarder or your skills. What I do criticize is your partly worse comparisons you stated at your review and your lack of knowledge and lack of awareness of knowing what you test. And how you tested it. I criticize you as a reviewer. Hoping of better prepared and aware serious reviews at Hardbooter.com in the future.

Greets, Hans.

[SITO]

Hi all,

In the market there are too much products , boots , bindings, boards, and all of them can be tested by profesionals, or persons with the necesary capabilities for it, because not all the persons have the capability of down pistes to 60 or 70km/h, so there are only a few riders who can do it and ride different brands boards and tested to the limit for all the people and th give their reviews about ,wihout any comercial interest, simply an imparcial opinion
(It's the same in car magazine, all the new cars in the market are tested, you read the magazine and then buy the car more adjusted to your necesities)

All the boards in the market, and repeat all the boards, have pros and contras, if some person know wich is the perfect alpine-board for ride in powder , race, do lay down turns,down fast without any vibration at 80km/h,easy to ride......Please said me which is!!!!!

Bordy and others guys tested all type of snowboard material than the mayority of us could never tested (at least I speak for me) and more or less you can make an idea with their opinions how the different brands go.

But each of us know wich is his preference,ride style,and where is our limit, simply you must judge , put in a balance your preference and the different properties than the market boards could offer us, and choose one or other board in function of all you want to do.

I decided buy one SWOARD because like me this ride style simply.
Also I have gs board for speed.



So thanks to Bordy an all the guys whom tested all type of snowboard material for us spending his spare time.
Thanks EC guys for give us the specific product for our riding style.


Different boards for different styles, is the same in all sports, the topic one man one board don't exist



Sito

[fivat]

Hi Bordy,

Thanks for your reply and your politeness. Yes, your review is long and contains also positive remarks. At start I even told to myself: "Ah, finally a less good review than the ones from other riders" However the words "leave the Swoard in the scabbard" are not nice and people who don't read the posts in detail will focus only on this.

Here are two problems in my opinion:

1) You tested a board (175H) that is made (width, flex, torsional stiffness) for riders who are +84 kilos (some of our customers are 100 kilos!) and +181 cm. You should have used a 168H or even a 168M... It's important. Even if you are used to long boards from other brands (that are made for your weight and that are not so wide), the Swoard 175H is absolutely not designed for your weight and size, whatever your skill is.

I have no doubt that you are honest and sincere. But imagine that I test a board which doesn't really suits to me: a small and too soft 154 board from another brand. I would say that I don't like some points, and could write honestly and sincerely why in details.

I know the guy (Jean-Paul Ohaco from Chile) who lent you the board. I exchanged some e-mails with him a few months ago. His order was a mistake: he should have bought a 168H, not a 175H. This summer (winter in South America) we sent him the proper board, and he told me that he really liked it, while he had problems of course with the 175H (he disliked it!). On 18th August 2004 he writes about the 168H: "This board works really good".

2) You have tested the board for only a half day apparently when you met Jean-Paul Ohaco at the lift. As explained on the Website, it may take 1-2 days for someone to get used to the Swoard, and especially to the EC technique (developed for this board, thanks to this board). Fortunately people feel already at start the potential of the Swoard. Last season at the Extremecarving Session (ECS '04) it was really funny to see how some testers progressed a lot in 3 days!

From a marketing point of view, the Swoard is a bad product because one can't test it really in a few runs. One sees nothing special on the outside of the board (except the wideness), and one has to learn the EC technique explained on our Website.


To conclude, I would just mention that I was surprised to see on Harbooter.com that the only and first board review you have posted is the one about the Swoard 175H. You have mentioned you have a large quiver. So why have you not posted reviews about some of your boards you use a lot? And why do you make a review about a board that you have tested for a half day in wet snow, and that is note suited to you?

Sorry for my bad English, or my eventual misapprehensions.
Keep your Website growing! Thanks for what you do for the alpine scene.

Patrice Fivat

[D-Sub]

you guys...Bordy didnt say "leave the board in the scabbard"

[Hans]

you guys...Bordy didnt say "leave the board in the scabbard"

Hi D-sub,
It's just that Bordy tested the for him wrong board under unsuitable conditions, comparing the SWOARD with nonequal boards. So the outcome/results in this review partly disqualifies the SWOARD to what its made for. That's the point in this review.

Greets, Hans.

[D-Sub]

understood.

but, he didnt say "dont buy this"

Ive read the review time and again, and...its not completely negative. In fact, I think its really kinda neutral!

tell you one thing, though...even if Bordy said "this board sucks" only a fcking idiot would base his opinion entirely on one mans take, no matter how experienced.

AND...Id still LOVE to try one of these boards out! maybe at SES this year?

[fivat]

This story is funny: people are talking about a board that is no more produced So I don't know if you will be able to test a Swoard one day (for your weight/size of course, hehe). If it works well with our new factory, the new boards could have slightly different properties/performances. Of course some parameters change in the production process (other machines, other temperatures, etc.). And some materials will be different. Let's cross the fingers.

We won't go the SES' 05 this year because the season 04-05 is a transition for SWOARD company.

Patrice Fivat