problems with extremecarving technique

[fivat]

Patrice Can i have my own opinion? Is it allowed?

Huh? Of course. But this is not a question of opinions, it's a question of facts about various techniques. I'm trying to make you understand what is called rotation. Look at the picture below: see the surfer shoulders and hips when he is on toes side (frontside). This is the end position of a fronside turn, the result of rotation of the chest in the same direction as the board. On next turn the rider will turn his hips and shoulders on the left: the board will turn on the left too.

This A gif is not reflecting what we would call bomberstyle...

It is of course an exaggerated animation, because it is made as a didactic tool to show clearly the differences. Your 3 videos are precisely examples of no rotation, as said by Arnaud. If you compare the shoulders relatively to the axe of the board, we could however say that the shoulders are slightly turning in the opposite direction of the board. In that sense it's quite a counter-rotation, the opposite of rotation.
So it's very different.

The surfers are leading their boards by rotations. They have no other choice (excepted for some tricks like the "off the lip"). It's natural to transpose this technique to snowboarding. There are many advantages which have already been discussed a lot here. One of them is to help closing the turns much better: the rider is really leading the board.
With the body facing the nose or slightly counter-rotating, the board turns by itself on its edge, that's all. It's OK for racing, performing quick turns, making "banana" turns, or skwaling. All depends on the goals and discipline.

Please starikashka, don't opposite techniques or philosophies here. They all have advantages and disadvantages. The thread here is about a new Swoarder who want to understand the Swoard technique (originally called "extremecarving", but now everybody is using this term for different things).
I hope that my explanations about surfing, etc. are clear. Anyway you will ride with me one day or another, right? It's planned, no? So it will be nice to show various things and techniques for real.

We could talk a lot about the legs movements too. But sharing this on the snow will be better.

Patrice Fivat

[starikashka]

Thanks Patrice I understand rotation that is basis of EC technic, do not preach to converted. I`m not trying to say what style is better, do not get me wrong..My trip to next ECS is planned, so we can discuss it in more efficient way

[Arnaud]

This guy spend couple of a days to learn EC without expert advice - he could do much better if someone look after him ( see 1:10-1:25 )

Only the turn @ 1:15 use EC technique. The rest is "is Bomber Style that use cross-over for transition" (dixit Alex)

[harald]

Please remember the topic of the thread as Patrice also notes:

The thread here is about a new Swoarder who want to understand the Swoard technique (originally called "extremecarving", but now everybody is using this term for different things).

This guy is asking what could be wrong since he fails in his attempts to do the EC-rotation technique. Therefore, there is no reason to end in angry discussions about different techniques. As Patrice said, they are useful for different purposes and I tink a good carver should have all the techniques in his or her repertoire.
By reading Patrice's posts Schmidtoo hopefully have got the advices he needs to practice further. I have for myself discovered that one of the secrets is not only to rotate the upper body, but also the hips, especially in the backside and continue rotating the hips till the middle of the turn (passing the fall line).
By the way it took me about 4 seasons of practice to master the EC-technique decently, doing Ok, but not perfect linked turn. I am on snow 4 to 5 times a week. However, I am old (and maybe not so talented), therefore I am perhaps a slow learner, but still learning.

[fivat]

Perfect starikashka, it will be nice to meet you as planned and count another Russian in the next ECS.

Note that nobody there has given subjective judgments on the styles. As I said, all techniques have advantages and disadvantages. I always try to reply with precise facts and tips that could be useful for other riders who want to learn new things. But sometimes there are susceptibilities and egos which are offended: that's Internet, that's life.

About the word "EC", I'm afraid it is now too much used by too many persons when they are simply carving strong, touching the snow with a hand or carving in counter-rotation. It is often a source of misunderstanding when we are not talking about the same things. Originally Jacques and I have chosen/created this word in 2001-2002 to give a name to our recognizable technique. The ancient world champion Jean Nerva (Nils knows him) and Serge Vitelli were not using this term for their isolated frontside laid turn (which was made in counter-rotaton, not rotation, what is very different). The word was very rarely used it the past and we made it popular. But we have no control on its use. I don't know what the solution is: the term Swoard-EC is maybe the less bad term to make a reference to the original definition.

Anyway, I hope that this thread has been a little bit useful to schmidtoo!
It was more my concern in my replies.
Have nice EC turns!

Patrice Fivat

[fivat]

I have for myself discovered that one of the secrets is not only to rotate the upper body, but also the hips, especially in the backside and continue rotating the hips till the middle of the turn (passing the fall line).

Exactly! Bravo Harald, again a pertinent and constructive post!

It's right for both turns. On the frontside, to continue rotating the hips gives the final position shown on the surfer picture above. We called this the "Egyptian position" in reference to the famous paintings.

Patrice Fivat

[pokkis]

Perhaps term EC should have originally be translated to ExtendedCarving

[fivat]

Yes, good idea!
But as we say, "we are always more intelligent after".

Patrice Fivat

[starikashka]

Perfect starikashka, it will be nice to meet you as planned and count another Russian in the next ECS.

Note that nobody there has given subjective judgments on the styles.

I expect even more another Russians Russian EC-community is growing steadily in quantity and quality...so, poor we are that we do not have such a luxury of 30-40 degrees slopes.

According second part of the quote - we discuss this personally I do see the evidence that there is some subjectivity.

Note - when I personally say EC - this means extremecarving as this explained on this site Let me be old fashion here..

[schmidtoo]

thank you all - especially Patrice - for taking the time to provide very helpful information. I very much appreciate this.
I think it is exciting to be part of a community which shares so much passion about their sport.

Markus