The importance of the socks and feet slipping in the boots!

[fivat]

This is not a joke. This is serious and I think it has never been discussed here.

I have several thick pairs of socks that I'm still using for snowboarding after many years because I love them. Last year and this season again, I have bought new and expensive pairs with the special mention "snowboard". But it has been a deception!

In the morning all is OK. But in the afternoon, when the feet and/or the liners are a bit wet, I feel that my feet are less held in the boots. Worse, they slightly slip in the boots! During a fully laid backside turn, I clearly felt my front foot moving in the boot, grrr!

With soft boots, same problem. Since the feet are less hold when the feet are warm/wet, I have to tighten the boots more and then it's really painful in the afternoon. Note however that I have rarely been totally comfortable in soft boots (all brands, and all type of soft bindings).

What are your experiences on the questions of socks? It would be nice if we could make a list of the good brands (though the year of production is important too). There are also some links to online shops that we could share.

Patrice Fivat

[Felix]

NEVER EVER wash your Socks - No Joking either!
2-3 times machine wash at 30°, no tumbledry or similar, at handwash settings and socks begin to break down even faster.

I instead just freeze my socks (and sometimes the liners too) in the icebox every few days to get rid of the smell (especially after using my softboots in which I sweat even worse than in hardboots). Nevertheless after about 100 days of riding socks beginn to slip when sweatty. The smaller the boots, the worse. I do still use older socks in hardboots, but in my softboots slipping becomes too big of a problem to use old socks. I am actually thinking about switching the liners of my softboots by midday against dry ones.

In softboots this is really bad, because I slip back/forward in any make a tiny bit, and if the socks are older or have been wased several times once wet they start to stretch a bit. Then while driving the not completely tight socks in front of my toes worsen the situation and I heavily crash against the boot shell at the front on backside or landing jumps. Lost one toenail due to that fact this season. That is using softboots that are exactly perfect fit otherwise (light touch of toes agains liners when standing straigt).

Deception for me: X-Socks Snowboard Edition. Really Expensive but broke down after about 20 days already. I am pretty happy about other products of that brand though (e.g. Conformable Insoles).

Best socks to me are simple Nylon socks for hardboots or extra thin skiing socks for ski racing boots (aka plug boots) which I use mainly in softboots.

[Transistor Rhythm]

Interesting subject. I have the Falke ones. Wore them yesterday. I always guessed the loosening of footgrip came from older and cheaper liners but it might be the socks contributing to the problem too.

[Hans]

Buy smell less socks: woolen socks. I wear Icebreaker Skier Lite Socks. They never smell. They get a little wet when my feet are toast but never have any complaints.

[rcrobar]

Hi Patrice

I have the same issue with foot movement, primarily the front foot. Add to this I have feet that freeze all the time in our cold Canadian winters! Over the winter I have been working on these two issues, foot movement and freezing feet. In the past I have always bought thinner socks, my reasoning was that the performance would be better.

I decided to purchase the warmest, thickest socks I could find. I also experimented with thinner and thicker foots-beds to try obtain the correct 'volume' for my foot size; the thickness of the socks and the space available in the boot liner, etc.. I ended up using a heated thicker footbed, that is cut to shape and replaces the original Northwave boot foot-bed.

What I found is that when I start riding in the morning my boots fit on the tight side, but fit just right after a few runs. The overall fit before the boots are tightened up is snug, there isn't a lot of room for the foot to slide before the buckles are done up. At mid-day I CHANGED to a fresh pair of socks, as was suggested by the Hotronic web site. The texture of the wool socks and the texture of the new Hotronic foot bed seem to 'stick' together well, they don't seem to slide.

So far I have had pretty good success with keeping my feet warmer and not sliding around! I also do not feel I have lost any noticeable performance when using thicker socks and a thicker heated foot-beds.

Hope this helps Pat:)
Rob


The Mountain Equipment CO-OP is a very well known retailer in Canada, here is the web site:
http://www.mec.ca/splash.jsp

I have been happy with these socks from Mountain Equipment CO-OP:
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_deta ... 6617496637

I also have an older versions of these foot warmers, the batteries are older technology:
http://www.hotronic.com/products/fw/index_m4.html

[Arnaud]

Some years ago I had also some problem with bad socks. It was not a hold problem but more some discomfort / pain due to slipping and folds.
I found the solution with Doré-Doré. High end socks !
Perfect holding, no slip, and good wearing resistance : doré doré

[eaglefly]

As for me I had to change my socks the day I changed my boots.
When I was riding with my old Raichle 121, I was always wearing very very thick socks because I thought it was warmer...it was ok, no problem.
But, the first day I used my Head Stratos Pro with the same socks I felt a huge pain in my feet and my legs as my blood wouldn't go down to my toes so I bought a very expensive pair of thin socks in Zinal...and found it was much much better, incredible! Since then I only use very thin socks, either those expensive snowboard socks or tights with regular stretchy socks (with elastane).
My back foot sometimes slips in the boots but I know for sure it has nothing to do with my socks : the size of my boots is too big + a bad position. If I wear thicker socks, I know it will be too tight somewhere else.. Patrice, I think your problem mainly comes from the liners of your boots, unless you use new boots..

[Schneewurm]

Choosing right match of Your liner and socks can take some time and money.
The mix of material (pure wool, synthetics, etc.), cut/shape of the socks, technics of weaving them and treatment of the socks against disgustings, can make the difference.

I'm happy and feel comfy with Rohner Socks from Jacob Rohner.

Watch out the huge palette of wintersport-socks in many colour-way. They will find not only a good match to Your liners, but even also a good match to the colour of Your board/boot/pants or whatever.
But beware about colour, the change sometimes every Years, cause of the demand of actual colour-ways on clothes!
I have just counter-checked what I was using Yesterday Sunday! I was wearing the Rohner freeride II in black/anthracite with dark-orange front and red strip. My board I was using for carving and off-piste, comes in bright anthracite / silver with black lines and dark-orange graphics. I coulnd't remember that I was then ever sliping / sliping out of my boots. More the that, it's realy a good feeling, if that would happen, there is no colour-dismatch. So people around who would perhaps see that sliping out of boots, would not be shocked about any worse fancy.

I actually use six type of Rohner socks, depending on boots, riding style and board.

Keep in mind to check always the care tips for this functional socks! Don't use any softeners or detergents for color fabrics (if socks contain animal fibres like wool *). Instead of softeners You can use a small amount of vinegar, You can add to the water in the last rinse.

(* detergents for color fabrics contain enzymes that attack the animal fibres. So You will start to slip then with Your socks in Your boots)

[harald]

Interesting topic. The problem of slipping may partly be caused by the socks and probably partly caused by the liners. I agree with all that when you have found a pair of socks that suits well in the boots I almost never change them till they are worn out completely. Now, I have a pair with silk and wool, but do not remember the brand. They stay warm and provides good hold throughout the day.
However, I have also the impression that the material inside the liners gets compressed both during the day and during the season. On the first days of the season both my snowboard (NW 900) and ski (Atomic race) boots fit snuggly, maybe a little bit too small. At the end of a long training session (4-5) hours the boots feel larger. The same at the end of the season. The boots feels too large. In the autumn they fit better again. A boot fitter in Oslo tells that liners hold only 20-50 days of skiing/boarding before they are broken and have to be replaced. I have problems believing him since he lives by selling expensive liners (Surefoot), but probably there is some truth in his statement. What is the conclusion? I end up with the same solution as Patrice. At the end of the day, and end of season, especially on warmer days, I end up with tightening the buckles harder. I have not tried to change socks during the day, but I will try.

[fivat]

Very interesting experiences and links. Thank you to everybody!


@Felix: I have washed my "good" socks for many years with no degradation in the feet hold. The new pairs have shown their weak hold already at the first use!

I instead just freeze my socks (and sometimes the liners too) in the icebox every few days to get rid of the smell

Wow! Good tip against the smell. I will try!

especially after using my softboots in which I sweat even worse than in hardboots

Yes, the soft boots are often too warm and I lose the hold in the afternoon because of the sweat, with all socks.
Like you, after midday my toes are moving against the boot shell at the front on backside or landing jumps. I hate this.


@Transistor Rhythm:

I have the Falke ones. Wore them yesterday. I always guessed the loosening of footgrip came from older and cheaper liners but it might be the socks contributing to the problem too.

I have bought Falke last year and it has been a deception. I have good hold with my very old Falke. So the issue could not be related to the liners but to the socks material and year of production.


@robcrobar:
Good tips! I confirm (like Hans) that woolen and thick socks are good. But my last socks are made of wool too, so I don't understand what's wrong. I will test other footbeds than my original Northwave ones.


@Arnaud:
Doré-Doré is sold in France only, far from Geneva. Could you buy two pairs for me? My size is 42-43.


@eaglefly:

Patrice, I think your problem mainly comes from the liners of your boots, unless you use new boots..

I have no problems with my old Falke, but with the new Falke! So it can't be the liner.


@Schneewurm:
What Rohner model do you use for alpine snowboarding and for soft boots riding? I have a pair of Rohner socks and I'm not as happy as you.


@harald:

I have also the impression that the material inside the liners gets compressed both during the day and during the season. On the first days of the season both my snowboard (NW 900) and ski (Atomic race) boots fit snuggly, maybe a little bit too small. At the end of a long training session (4-5) hours the boots feel larger.

Yes me too with my Nortwave boots, but only during the day, not the season. At start I feel that my boots are small, but after one hour I need to tighten them more. Then it's OK for the rest of the day. Probably the sweat is playing a role. Note however that I'm using 28.5 liners in my 27.0 shells, to get more comfort and longevity!


Patrice Fivat

[Hans]

@robcrobar:
Good tips! I confirm (like Hans) that woolen and thick socks are good. But my last socks are made of wool too, so I don't understand what's wrong. I will test other footbeds than my original Northwave ones.

What?..... you're still riding those very flat original Northwave footbeds, if you can call that Northwave things footbeds. No wonder you have absolutely no hold in your boots. Buy yourself some custommade footbeds. You will have some footpain in the beginning because your feet aren't used to the right formed shape of supporting footbeds. After that you don't want to ride without. It's healthier for your spine, you have more control.

[fivat]

No wonder you have absolutely no hold in your boots. Buy yourself some custommade footbeds.

Where did you read this? I have excellent and perfect hold since 1998 in my Northwave boots with my good old socks. The point here is to understand why my new socks suck!

I have never felt the necessity to change the footbeds in my Northwaves (though I'm open to some tests). However I had to make many changes in my soft boots. Including custom made footbeds like Conformable, etc. But all my soft boots have been painful (6-7 brands tested).

Patrice Fivat

[rilliet]

I have the Falke for "ski touring" (not "snowboarding" that seems just hype to me) and they are the best I have ever had! Very comfortable, perfect contact with the boot, no pain.
I use them for 3 seasons now.

Jacques

[Felix]

O.T.:

I think softboots feeling uncomfortable to hardbooters is quite common. We just expect much more foothold and work more with overall lean out of hips and knees than using our foot muscles for angulation. With general preference of good hardbooters to go for longboards or swallowtails the forces are even stronger and softboot riding becomes painful (either you strap in like hell blocking blood circulation or you slip in the boots).

I have tried many many softboots and the only ones that I feel comfy in are Deeluxe Spark. Sadly they are out of production since 2 seasons so I buy em up on ebay like people buy up Northwave hardboots. There is simply no other boot that is still produced that can somehow compare in stiffness (Burton DriverX, or Salomon Malamutes are waaayyy softer). The stiff Northwave softboots (Reset) and stiff 32 softboots are even longer out of production and harder to get.

So once I run out of my spares I will either have to change my technique with softboots or use mountaineering boots cause to me all current softboots are utter junk.

[Arnaud]

Doré-Doré is sold in France only, far from Geneva.

Not only. I've already seen this socks in skishops.