@Olaf: Virus in Sölden

[skywalker]

Hey Olaf,

next weekend (March 19. - 21.) Virus will be at the Glacier in Sölden. There will be some serious carvers, I guess . And Frank the Virus-Guy will have some wider prototypes with him, so the EC-Philosophy has already started growing!

Have a lot of fun!!

Tom

[nils]

We know that it is going to be more wider carving boards next seasons...
Makers that used to make 15cm boards like virus will have to follow the trend too, and I am not surprise that boards in the same width as ours appears...
What is funny is the first reactions were: you cannot carve on a wide board!
I can't wait until Hot, F2 makes wider board hehe am sure they are already riding some protos out there!

Now our boards will still be with the best grip hehe So there will be room for everyone behind

Nils

[GrimReaper]

Still if more brands will apear on the marked it would profide a few more options, and hopefuly a lower price.
Not trying to say the swoard isn't worth it's price, it just is expencive.

It is hard to justify(for myself) the high price of a swoard without testing it. Now the high price is compensated by it's original shape. When ther are more baords with the "same" shape, it will be the technique in the board (together with low production numbers) that has to justify the price. Then testing is ecential.

[pokkis]

Reference to testing, i have tested only one board before buying it and it was only time when i was really disaponted difference of tested first F2 cap proto and first production board was so different.
Seriously, i believe that only serious testing will give you feeling of board ie one needs to have time for riding and adjusting binding settings to find proper placement of stance and stance width. Sometimes board that feels not so good with few first runs, are really great ons, they just feel so different that one is used that it does not feel good first.
Sword is great board, i've seen several people riding those and developing fast on carving and been riding them bymyself too and have felt that for me way the tail of Sword works is really key for being great board. Same can be seen on several video clips by scrolling them slowly back and fort, tail is really supporting rider for getting up from turn. Same goes also with nose, it is really sucking gently rider to tight turn
And no, i did not get any free beer from this. And no i dont own Sword yet, perhaps when there will be 20 cm width long model available

[skywalker]

Hey, funny discussion,

I also think, the swoard is a great board. I furthermore think, it was incredibly important, that J, P & N developed this board. Their HP is the best, that could happen to the carving world. If other's are joining the wide-board-tendency, this will improve the whole thing, I believe. There will be more heads thinking about Extremecarving, which will even lead to further improvement of all alpine snowboarding. You are already thinking about strengthening your top sheet which is a weak example for improvement caused by comparison to other alpine stuff. I'm already excited about the future of EC.

[pokkis]

There are/were also other wide boards available like these Donek's, specially those two last ones on list are very interesting ones. I almost bought that 190 one

Model Length Effective Sidecut Width Stiffness Price US$
(cm) Edge (cm) Radius (m) (cm)
175 Behle GS 175 159 13.00 27.9/23.0/27.9 9.1 550
178 Behle FC 178 161 11.20 27.8/22.0/27.8 9.0 550
186 Behle GS 186 170 15.00 26.8/22.0/26.8 10.8 550
190 Petersen GS 191 174 13.00 29.3/23.5/29.3 9.5 650

[Matt]

Hi!!

The SWOARD Team has made the SWOARD because they are passionated of Alpine snowboarding and because there was NO boards available anywhere to Make EC!

Their goal (as they say in the site) is to promote alpine snowboard... And that's what they are doing! And doing very well!

And as we can see, as soon as this new discipline is catching some attention and their product is being bought, the big factories become interested in alpine again... as there is some money to make!

And this is a big difference!

[GrimReaper]

Yes, and thats great

The point i was trying to make is that when big manufacturers like F2 are going to make a board simular to a swoard, for less. That the swoard will have to be beter constructed, because the shape will be more or less the same.

And the problem with being small like the guys that make the swoard is that it will be difficult to compete with the big brands. I can buy a F2 around the corner an can test it at my "local hill". So even if its beter a swoard will have to be a lot better to "beat" the big brands.

I'm not saying they can't to that, or even if they want to do that. It would however be a sham to lose the swoard just because the big companies deside to start making ec-alpineboards.

[harald]

Yes, in general I agree in testing in beforehand expensive equipment when it's an unknown brand or otherwise depend on riding style, likes and dislikes. However, I think that in order to be meaningful you also need some experience with different brands and types of boards so you both know what to look for and are able to correctly evaluate the characteristics of the board(s) you test.
In my own case, I had very limited experience both with carving (on snowboard) and with snowboardbrands in general. Therefore, I was convinced by the arguments for the Swoard design and bought one without testing. To be honest, my first impression was disappointing, but the conditions for my first run were also horrible with fog and no sight at all. Therefore, I only dared to go very slow. Under such conditions my F2 Speedster GTS 158 cm performed well. The Swoard did not carve at all. The big difference came the next time when the visibility were good and I could go faster. Then I began to discover the qualities of the Swoard. In short, my technique improved and still is improving by constantly learning how hard I can drive this board and how dependable it is under various conditions, but it took some time to discover this. For me the conclusion is that I have developed with the board. I can trust it under conditions where my F2s (speedster GS and GTS) have given me unpleasant surprises, so no I recommend Swoard to all my friends. I doubt that when I first tried Swoard (March last year) would have been able to detect all the good qualities of the Swoard within just a few runs.
I will not say that Swoard is the only good board for EC on the market. What I will say is that it may take time and experience to really test it out and it should be tested out and compared with other boards under various conditions.

[nils]

Ok, lets imagine F2 makes a board with similar dimensions:
Cost will be in the 600 euros range.
Now that board will NEVER have the same grip and efficiency compare to ours because it will not have our ATC matrix.

We're pretty confident this will remain the same for the following reasons:

- HUGE cost of the system: We sell it cheap for what it costs to produce.
A big name like F2 will have to sell it (in case they succeed in copying the system) more than 1000 euros, and I doubt they will do this...

- Difficulties of producing in high series 9 different boards ( remember the flex is adapted to the rider, which is NOT the case with production board, where the weight ranges are 30 kilos almost. ), high cost of having unsold stocks ( remember the assymetrical problems with all shops having boards in stock for the goofyfoots).

- Now something else: assuming you have two boards that have the same cost ( talking about some brand making the same shape/concept) will you prefer to pay for a board that has the best grip or one that is trying to copy the concept...? Of course this isn't working in the case anyone succeed in making a better board with a better grip

As for the developpement of the wider boards/EC philosophy ( lets call it also high performance freeriding ): I think it is a very good thing because it begins to have people in softboots think a lot, and maybe want to try alpine snowboarding... If we can convert some people: we will succeed!

Nils

[skywalker]

Really funny,

first I just wanted to tell the forum, that there will be an opportunity to meet other carvers in Sölden, have some fun, show your style and maybe test another EC-Board. As Pokkis said: Most important thing is testing! Even you own style improves IMHO by riding slightly different boards.

I did not want to start another discussion about the pricing of the SWOARD, because I believe, that it is worth every single Euro. Especially as there is a lot of enthusiasm an technological leadership in it. I also don't think, that an F2 could keep anybody from buying a SWOARD. Who believes this, never has compared the SWOARD to a F2.

Maybe we will meet in Zinal next wekend, if you are there , then we can have a cool beer together and talk about the coming change in Snowboarding. This is the really great thing all about! Three years ago there no wide high quality board could be found, and in the near future you will be able to choose (more or less *LOL*)

[nils]

i only wish Soelden was closer to Lyon because i would really love meeting the carving crew there too .
Its true that the most important thing is the carving/alpine world unifies and shows a big family with different specificities, that are good to the sport! Its all about having fun anyway and the rest is not that important...
Reminds me of a good surfing motto in the 80's (Company name was Instinct...RSA guy Shaun Thomson used to be sponsored by them)
"Surf is life, the rest is details"

Nils