warum war Swoard nicht an der FCM???

[frunobulax]

Now it's my turn to be shocked... maybe I was too optimistic..

Nils, I understand the "lack of time" thing. And - again - I hope for more time next season.

But after reading Patrice's post I doubt that my presumptions were correct. Maybe I was too optimistic concerning your attitude towards snowboard carving in general. Maybe I should have re-read your "manifesto" first...
But I consider it useless to respond to this post since I wouldn't know where to begin. In my opinion the carving community has advanced way beyond this point in the last years.
We can discuss the advantages of wide and narrow boards, of this or that style and of this or that brand. But when it comes to "we won't go there because the others are already there" and "our way of snowboarding is better and the other way is not snowboarding any more" I'm out.

I hope that you find time to re-think your attitude during the summer.

[nils]

we claim that EC technique is the best for many reasons...

is it that shocking as an opinion?
is it harmfull for a community (carving) to have various opinions inside?
is it harmful to say that I dislike riding on a narrow board? and as a website dedicated to EC, which implies to us riding on wide boards, saying it?

I'm not buying this: "you are bad vibes in the community" thing... The manifesto (remember it was written in 2002 when alpine was REALLY dying, maybe not in Germany and Austria, but in France, west Switzerland and italy it was) is making a point (it is not necessarely objective truth: it is a manifesto!) and shows a different opinion (ours) on a topic... I don't see anything bad in using the tools we have (our website) to say our opinion... and believe me I respect yours and people riding narrow boards as co-members of the family we all belong to...

Really i don't see what is shocking in this "we like this better, and we dislike this for X reasons etc..." and to my / our opinion it doesnt put the community in danger to have various point of views.

nils

[frunobulax]

My apologies.. I edited my post too slowly..

This is what I always thought of the manifesto.. that it's a bit exaggerated and a bit out-dated. An interesting new thing at that time, and an eye-opener for the dazing alpine world.
But if I understood Patrice right he doesn't seem to have changed his mind since then.

If I just didn't get the joke please let me know.

[skywalker]

Serge said that such boards are no more snowboards: he called them "skiboards"... Well, OK, it's still carving, as it can be done with skis, telemarks or skwals. Why not invite all winter sports to the next meetings?

Dear Nils.

Maybe frunobulax was confused by this quote by Patrice, as I was before.
It's clearly marked as Serge Vitelli's opinion. But why quote this sentence again, if it would not express somebody's own opinion?

Maybe this helps you to understand frunobulx's confusion

skywalker

Disclaimer (edit): Personally for me it's totally fine, if everybody claims himself the inventor of Snowboardíng. Everybody knows, that it was me anyways

@all: Don't care too much about the details. As long as you are focussed on your own joy in snowboarding, th noise doesn't matter at all

[frunobulax]

Thanks Tom...

Yes, this was partly the reason for my "confusion". Yes, it's partly marked as a quotation, but I do think you should be very careful with quotes like these.

But there's more of it. When I read Patrice's post I get the impression of somebody telling me:
We have the key. We know the way. We don't go to your house, you come to our house. If you don't do EC, we're not interested. And if you do EC, we're only interested if you do it our way.
And if your way is not our way, we doubt if it is snowboarding at all.
We Rolex, you copy. You bad for alpine, we rescue alpine.

That's an exaggeration, I know. But I think you know that I've always tried to see both sides and point out what we have in common. My comments are normally restrained and quiet.
But this was too much for my stomach.

[nils]

we have more in common than we have in disagreement thank God
I personnaly agree with Serge Vitelli statement, and my former surfer experience tells me he is not too wrong. However what he misses is the fact that you, I , other people can have fun doing what they do, using different techniques and styles.
Yes Frunobulax there is some " i do it the right way' in the manifesto and in our usual statements, but as stated in my past message i dont see anything harmful in saying it, its just a way we / I see it.. what is missing is " i do it the right way for what i want to achieve/do/etc...'... meaning if someone is happier riding skwals be it, same as riding duck stance in the pipe...

At the end people are old enough to see for themselves, and pick up what they want to do... I saw the vids of the CMasters, and i hated the style of some riders using so much cant and lift that their style was to me ugly...they were however very good riders, much stronger than me etc.. Some others have a less brutal and less bent style which suits me better and i prefered to watch them riding...be it .. ( I enjoy to watch Joerg for example because despite his different style compare to us, he is very smooth and fluid )

N

[luck]

...i hated the style of some riders...was to me ugly...

..."Die Schönheit liegt im Auge des Betrachters"

[richard1]

Back to topic
The question was, why didn't Swoard joined the FCM. Many participants missed you. Take this as a chance to present your style, your boards or whatesle you want to share with a grandious community of carvers.

So, let's find a way to unite all carvers next time.

Hope we are all open minded enough

I would really love to ride a swoard next time

[frunobulax]

Nils, in my opinion it not enough to claim: "everyone should do what suits him best". One should also act like he believes it.
I do not doubt that you personally believe this - and act this way. But I'd like to understand why Patrice wrote what he wrote.

And I'd like to know in which role you see yourself and the Swoard-team:
1. either you are part of the alpine community. EC is important for the evolution of alpine and adds to the variety of styles, thus bringing more fun into snowboarding, but equal to other styles. It is important to develop alpine as a whole - together and separated - und thus interesting what other groups do. If somebody invents a new style/type of board you would be among the first people to try it.
2. or you are the saviour of alpine. Other styles may be interesting, but lead the wrong way. EC is the top of alpine evolution. Your function is to sing the song of EC and have as much people as possible learning EC in order to bring more fun into snowboarding.
What other groups do is not of importance to you as long as there's no benefit for EC.
If sby. invents a new style/type of board it would be a hard struggle. Maybe the role of EC as the saviour of alpine would end, maybe EC would prevail.


Don't get me wrong. This is an exaggeration, too. And maybe there's good reason for both possibilities.

But I think it would be helpful for the organizers of not-EC meetings to know which side you're on.

[nils]

Patrice will maybe answer you regarding what he wrote...
the way i see it ( regarding your last post):

- we are part of a community
- we did/ do not save the sport or feel like saving angels it would be so megalomaniac to pretend this ( and would be also false)
- we do think EC as a style is better than the others ( personnal tastes) this is why we made this EC site...I would not mind seeing a " bomber style" website like "flegmatic carving" website ( which is 2d degree too) or other site explaining how to set and carve with narrow boards and high angles and canting etc...It is clear that EC has an identity, when other kinds of riding does not clearly act as identified, named appart from the pureboarding style which is very impressive ( we had a member of PB team at the first ECS and he was great fun to watch).
Again, we were at the SES with our identity and we melted in the group without problem despite the differences in style and technique...i don't see why it should be pointed out for carving events organizers ( they can see with their own eyes that we do something different)... the richness is to have all style represented in a general carving meeting i guess...

I hope this explaination doesnt raise "family flags".. its just trying to be objective and explain and justify our position. Thanks by the way for the fair talks ( away from flame wars which are easy to start when positions are not exactly the same..)

Nils