Just take your time so the result will be the best
Carved - a short flick about extreme carving
Moderators: fivat, rilliet, nils
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starikashka
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nils
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boyz
what you are about to see..ok not right now...will change everything about how snowboarding was filmed...i was speechless..motionless, breathless when watching the first teaser 
You better get some prozac to calm down before watching it
i must have watched the teasing images about 50 times since Jonas let us see them ten days ago...
Nils
You better get some prozac to calm down before watching it
i must have watched the teasing images about 50 times since Jonas let us see them ten days ago...
Nils
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starikashka
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AGREED
AGREED HERE, NILS, shut the f##### upstarikashka wrote:
be quiet.
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nils
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well
the most incredible thing about what i just said is that its not a fake advertisement of a classic swoard movie we made....its about the same difference between a home made dv movie and a scorcese movie....
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starikashka
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nils
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see my avatar
<<<<<< my avatar says it all
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Felix
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Uh I would love to hold the Red One in my hands and "play" a bit with it!
Do you cut on the original material or downscaled? Just imagining editing with 4k Materiall or 120FPS 2k. You would need one hell of a computer just to play it back without stuttering.
I hope you make a HDTV version with low compression available (Pretty much noone will be able to play back 4k anyhow). Are you going to make a public screening in a Cinema in Paris? (too bad I'm so far away).
Just thinking of how crazy that upgrade to RedOne would be from Canon XM1 /M2 or the successor the XH-A1.......... Does it really have a film look even though being shot on video?
Do you cut on the original material or downscaled? Just imagining editing with 4k Materiall or 120FPS 2k. You would need one hell of a computer just to play it back without stuttering.
I hope you make a HDTV version with low compression available (Pretty much noone will be able to play back 4k anyhow). Are you going to make a public screening in a Cinema in Paris? (too bad I'm so far away).
Just thinking of how crazy that upgrade to RedOne would be from Canon XM1 /M2 or the successor the XH-A1.......... Does it really have a film look even though being shot on video?
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Jonas Rejman
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@Felix
The RED ONE is physically a system, that is as big as any other film camera. You need heavy tripods, heads, lenses and mateboxes to get the most out of it.
Surely, it can be operated by one person, but when you try to pan, pull focus on a 35mm depth of field (no there is no autofocus, stabilization and other consumer "tools" on a film camera), or even zoom at the same time, you surely will hit your limits very soon.
You assume correctly, that one has to make a choice between resolution or high frame rate. In the case of Carved, we were aware, that this is a 2k project, because of the highspeed shoots.
However, we shoot in 4k with primelenses as well. This allows us to keep the beauty of 4k super35mm on a sharp lense (this is a primelense). This beauty will not be lost, when you downsize to 2k.
As for playback. Most films that are in digital master are mastered in 2k. Even the high budget hollywood gems like spiderman.
The main reasons for that are economical:
4k is just an incredible load for the diskarrays. The array has to pump 24 pictures per second, every picture is 10 bit DPX, which is about 50MB. This information cannot be compressed, because no processor would decompress realtime.
So in 4k for the the digital postproduction, where you need full quality, you end up with 1200MB/s what the system needs to pump at a constant rate, meaning it has to be able to peak at more than that, to have reserves. You imagine, that this is quite a load.
(When you finish the digital post, and go for projection, you create a package according to the DCI standart. This compresses the picture frames in jpeg2000, which is a very effective compression. The datarates for the projection system are then about 30-40MB/s.)
Further, the 4k image has 4 times more information than 2k. So, if you do CGI effects, you need to be much more precise when you create the effect, and when you render for check and final render. Costs more time, and time is money.
Further, 4k projectors are very rare right now. The theaters just installed their 2k systems and why should they spend further money on an architecture, that is 6-7 times more expensive? (remember 2k-4k difference?) In Germany, there is only one 4k projector. Sure, it will pick up more and more, and thats why in 2007 there were about 4 films made in 4k digital master. I think the last Bond was one of them.
What makes the RED ONE so special, that it records at 30MB/s at full 4k. The compression is almost invisible, and very advanced mathematics. Therefore the data from the sensor cannot be viewed, and the data has to be "developed" as a film negative. If you ever shoot with your DSLR in RAW mode, this is RAW, only at 24fps.
With the right coloring software and a very powerfull workstation (think Intel 8core at 4 Ghz), you can process and color correct directly from the RAW data. This avoids the need of a SAN capable 1200MB/s, and still you work with real 4k. Not in realtime though, there are no processors for that now. But it tops at 2k at the current development, which is enough for colors.
THIS is the real revolution of the RED ONE.
And at NAB this year, they will present 4k projectors, that will NOT cost 250 000 USD, like those from sony.
We will try to master and show Carved at 2k, of course. I certainly did not go through all that trouble to have a crappy version on youtube. It is time and resource intensive though, but talks take place right now. A hint here, 2k premiere might go in summer in Lausanne.
I think about mastering high quality Bluray/DVD versions as well, but then, there should be enough people willing to pay for a 7 minutes extremecarvingflick (and 30 minutes making of). No idea if there even is a market with the given demand for that.
Is the difference big from a RED ONE and a XH-A1?
Honestly, only a brilliant trained eye might see some sort of a difference.
The RED ONE is physically a system, that is as big as any other film camera. You need heavy tripods, heads, lenses and mateboxes to get the most out of it.
Surely, it can be operated by one person, but when you try to pan, pull focus on a 35mm depth of field (no there is no autofocus, stabilization and other consumer "tools" on a film camera), or even zoom at the same time, you surely will hit your limits very soon.
You assume correctly, that one has to make a choice between resolution or high frame rate. In the case of Carved, we were aware, that this is a 2k project, because of the highspeed shoots.
However, we shoot in 4k with primelenses as well. This allows us to keep the beauty of 4k super35mm on a sharp lense (this is a primelense). This beauty will not be lost, when you downsize to 2k.
As for playback. Most films that are in digital master are mastered in 2k. Even the high budget hollywood gems like spiderman.
The main reasons for that are economical:
4k is just an incredible load for the diskarrays. The array has to pump 24 pictures per second, every picture is 10 bit DPX, which is about 50MB. This information cannot be compressed, because no processor would decompress realtime.
So in 4k for the the digital postproduction, where you need full quality, you end up with 1200MB/s what the system needs to pump at a constant rate, meaning it has to be able to peak at more than that, to have reserves. You imagine, that this is quite a load.
(When you finish the digital post, and go for projection, you create a package according to the DCI standart. This compresses the picture frames in jpeg2000, which is a very effective compression. The datarates for the projection system are then about 30-40MB/s.)
Further, the 4k image has 4 times more information than 2k. So, if you do CGI effects, you need to be much more precise when you create the effect, and when you render for check and final render. Costs more time, and time is money.
Further, 4k projectors are very rare right now. The theaters just installed their 2k systems and why should they spend further money on an architecture, that is 6-7 times more expensive? (remember 2k-4k difference?) In Germany, there is only one 4k projector. Sure, it will pick up more and more, and thats why in 2007 there were about 4 films made in 4k digital master. I think the last Bond was one of them.
What makes the RED ONE so special, that it records at 30MB/s at full 4k. The compression is almost invisible, and very advanced mathematics. Therefore the data from the sensor cannot be viewed, and the data has to be "developed" as a film negative. If you ever shoot with your DSLR in RAW mode, this is RAW, only at 24fps.
With the right coloring software and a very powerfull workstation (think Intel 8core at 4 Ghz), you can process and color correct directly from the RAW data. This avoids the need of a SAN capable 1200MB/s, and still you work with real 4k. Not in realtime though, there are no processors for that now. But it tops at 2k at the current development, which is enough for colors.
THIS is the real revolution of the RED ONE.
And at NAB this year, they will present 4k projectors, that will NOT cost 250 000 USD, like those from sony.
We will try to master and show Carved at 2k, of course. I certainly did not go through all that trouble to have a crappy version on youtube. It is time and resource intensive though, but talks take place right now. A hint here, 2k premiere might go in summer in Lausanne.
I think about mastering high quality Bluray/DVD versions as well, but then, there should be enough people willing to pay for a 7 minutes extremecarvingflick (and 30 minutes making of). No idea if there even is a market with the given demand for that.
Is the difference big from a RED ONE and a XH-A1?
Honestly, only a brilliant trained eye might see some sort of a difference.
After this nice and interesting story we all are looking forward to a DVD version of course. For a normal retailprice, there is certainly a market for this. You can't be holding back those beautiful pictures for yourselfJonas Rejman wrote:We will try to master and show Carved at 2k, of course. I certainly did not go through all that trouble to have a crappy version on youtube. It is time and resource intensive though, but talks take place right now. A hint here, 2k premiere might go in summer in Lausanne.
I think about mastering high quality Bluray/DVD versions as well, but then, there should be enough people willing to pay for a 7 minutes extremecarvingflick (and 30 minutes making of). No idea if there even is a market with the given demand for that