EC vs. Race Slalom

[István]

Hey EC Community,

On the weekend I was watching snowboard paralell slalom on EuroSport. Many of the contestants had very poor edge grip and edge control in comparisson with EC, not to mention that their curves were rather far from being perfect (too far from the poles), which results in time loss.

Too many skiddings, roadsiding and huge crashes, although the snow was not too icy, maybe in the beginning it was too soft. Anyway, contestants were not complaining about conditions, what's more, most of them were satisfied with the slope and the weather.

So, I started to think about if EC experience could be useful in race slalom. By 'experience' I mean both riding technique and equipment technical stuff. I wonder what you guys think about it. Could Jacques, Patrick and Nils help contestants in building a better equipment and technique, or EC makes no use for racers. Could J+P be a good racer? On the other hand, do you think racers can EC, or they get lost without the red and blue poles.

Looking forward to reading your view on the above.


Cheers,

István

ps.: J+P+N, of course I'd like to see your points on this one, too.

[x-eff]

Race is about getting downhill as fast as possible, with a few poles to make it fun !! (and more safe...). This ain't the goal of EC.

And don't be fooled by what you can see on tv, the only way to juge if racers loose time because of their technique is to compete with them. You'd be surprised at how fast they go...

[István]

X-eff,

I am not saying that they are slow. Neither I am saying that EC is equal to racing.

All that I was considering is that maybe as there were many developments in EC, that could be useful in racing, althoug it is a completely different branch.

Like they take ideas from F1 and Rally and put it into the normal street cars.


Kindest,

István

[x-eff]

You spoke about the contestants having "poor edge grip and edge control", and curves "far from being perfect". I can tell you that they often get the most grip they can get, considering the tremendous speed! Nobody could lay a turn with that speed, it would require titanium boards and legs!!

Speed in EC is necessary because it allows to bend the board, but the real goal is to turn. In comparison, turning is necessary in racing, but the real goal is speed, see the difference?

And also, don't be fooled by the development that P&J made for EC, which could be applied to race boards. They did it because the whole alpin board business is dedicated to race, and they felt that they needed something different to achieve their "perfect turns". But there is still a strong (well, not so strong compared to ski...) development going on race boards. Ever wondered why you could find race boards in shops, and no EC boards? That's because these are the boards that the racers use ('cause they are designed for racing, and are the most efficient for that).

I spend some time last year with a few racers (and met Isabelle Blanc, world champion and olympic gold medal in geant slalom), I can tell you that they really can achieve perfectly laid turns at will!! They may not have the same pure style as J&P (because those guys worked a lot on perfecting EC, technique and equipment), but they master the technique, they have very strong legs, are not afraid when it's getting fast...

Again, try to ride a slalom or giant with a decent chrono, and you'll see that it's impossible to keep a correct EC technique, even if competitors try to avoid skiding whenever they can.

[SITO]

Hi all
Moreover, not only the high speed is the difference between EC and slalom and GS.

In EC you can start the turn in the part of the slope that you considered best for this, whith best snow,sufficient space, whith the correct direcction , appropiated radius.......

In competition you must make the turn in the pennat, and you can't make laid down turn because the space, velocity, and situacion of this don't allow to make the tecnique of EC

[István]

Guys,

Firstly, I am not expecting racers to carve as low as we try to.

Secondly, I appreciate your comments, which in this case is: 'these are two different sports, racing can not profit from EC experience'.

Do I get it right? Now let's hear others, I would be especially curious about the Swoard team's opinion.

Again, I am not making statements here, I am just curious about what you guys think. (frankly speaking I have not even ticked any answers in the poll)


Carve low,

István

[x-eff]

Yes, of course, racers can benefit from EC experience (the opposite is true too), but all the racers that I know are obviously top carvers. What I mean is that they keep a good grip on the board edge whenever it is possible when racing (cause that allows them to go faster), and they really can lay turns when they want. So they master both techniques, and use the one that is appropriate, depending on what they do : race or EC. I guess that some tricks may be applied to both...

[rilliet]

Hi guys,

I personnaly agree with all your arguments. I have met and talked with racers too and I must says we have a totaly different, even opposite goal and style. As you said, racers wants to be the fastest, we try to make perfect turns.

Now the question of istvan is if our technique could help racers to go faster. This is very difficult to answer because it should be tested. For what I have tried myself in gates is that laying down turns has not really a sense for going fast because the body hits the gates so we have to make very large turns that loose too much time.

But I think that "push-pull" turn technique could be really efficient as most of ski racers use it with a lot of succes.
The problem with this technique is that it needs softer boots and lower feet angulation in order to be able to bend the knees during the transition when no effort is applied on the edge. The today race equipment is much too stiff to manage such movements. Racers use the pressure of the turn itself to bend their knees. So as you can imagine a racer who would like to change his technique should change his equipment and adjustments too, and would need a lot of training to reach his previous racing level.

I would be very interested to see the result.

Jacques