Swallowtail Design

[Jrobb]

Hi all,
I have been lurking bout for a month or so and am glad to see the large interest in swallowtail boards here. It's quite different from the park-rat atmosphere on most forums. I have recently been bitten by the swallowtail bug but have been riding for about 15 years. I recently resurrected my old beat-up Eldorado 164 by cutting it into a swallowtail. It lost 3cm of length in the process, but is a blast to ride and is my rock/pow stick. I also have a Osin 4807 168 which I ride when the pow is deeper that 1 foot (.3M)...the tail cutout has been elongated (by me as well) and slightly widened and to my pleasure is more balanced. On to the real question.

Is there any appreciable difference any of you have noticed in the particular shape/design of the swallowtail cutouts with respect to tracking, turn initiation, float/sink(I get this one more or less), on piste performance? Is there any benefit of having the cutout inside edge as parallel as possible (or actually not parallel but meeting the snow at the same angles on either side) to the outside carving edge like the Voille, Phenix, Saber, Boheme, Lancelot, Swellpanik, and Apocalypse as opposed to the curved style of the Miura, Winterstick, Osin, Pogo, and Powderflower? This may sound odd, but when viewing the pics., it should be clearer. Thanks for any help and suggestions

J

I am aware that some of you are designers or are in close contact with designers of some of the dopest swallowtails on the planet, so I am just curiously picking your collective brains on the issue. I know there is more to the boards than just cutting the tail shape out, but there are quite a few styles out there, and I have put together most of the different ones I could find below:

[JonDahl]

Cutout shape is most likely less important than the amount of board that is cut out. I think the nose shape is top priority (size, flex,length of nose), taper of the board second, actual board flex pattern, then the tail cutout. This is only a personal opinion, and I've only ridden two, my Nitro pow 178 and the Voile 178 split. Your experiences may differ. If you were to ride your rock board back to back in deeper snow against your 4807 you would likely feel the same. And the biggest difference is the nose.

[Jrobb]

Most definitely, the two are very different...one(4807) is 11cm longer than the Eldorado. The 168 by the way measures 172...and the nose is way different...the flex is softer even more so at the nose...but the tails have the same pattern basicly. The Eldo however has more turn-up at teh tips of the tail than the 4807 and gives up about 20 cm in running length as well. The nose is most definitely the main beneficial difference, but they are in two different ball parks as they ride unique yet have the same basic profile cutout. I did notice that both got squirrely upon cutting out the shape at the rear...the 4807 just became more squirrely. I'm curious why the different patterns for cutout though...I get the area thing having to do with how much sink is needed, but why the specific pattern.

I understand the Phenix guy(s) were/are ex Boheme shapers...they seemed to have kept the same cutout shapes. Is it just for asthetics, ride control, or to keep stiffness at certain points?

Tails are more or less the same, but the Eldo has more curves.

For s**ts and giggles here are my two babies:


J

[Benn]

J,
Cannot answer to you according to tails but they are usually soft whereas nose are pretty hard Flex ...
According to the curves, it is definitely due to the Flex and the Shape of the board, not the tail. By "elongating" the tail, you have modified the tail flexibility -> softer.

Note:
You should test other Swallowboards. I tried 4807 and in my opinion it is not the best at all in terms of "behavior in powder" : Not that it is not a good board, just because it is a lot less efficient/comfortable than powder guns!
Bye,
B

[Jrobb]

J,
Cannot answer to you according to tails but they are usually soft whereas nose are pretty hard Flex ...
According to the curves, it is definitely due to the Flex and the Shape of the board, not the tail. By "elongating" the tail, you have modified the tail flexibility -> softer.

Note:
You should test other Swallowboards. I tried 4807 and in my opinion it is not the best at all in terms of "behavior in powder" : Not that it is not a good board, just because it is a lot less efficient/comfortable than powder guns!
Bye,
B

Definitely food for thought Benn. My first initiation into the swallotails, other than my Eldorado since I made it before I got the Osin, was on the Osin. It appears to be the opposite of most normal powder guns then. It is hard in the tail and soft...wayyyy too soft up front. that is mainly why I lengthned the tails...to soften it up. Seems to have calmed it down a bit...I like that. I would love to try some real powder guns, but most seem to be produced in Europe. I am neither rich, nor Is my French any good ....anymore. I am guessing I can only hope to catch some demos of maybe Prior, or Nitro here in North America when they come near my Mtn. I ride Kirkwood, and though we get tons of snow (839" season total most of which came from March til now) most of it comes in the form of 2ft + of powder. I could definitely put some guns through their paces, but if only some of the aformentioned boards were demoing in the States. I'd love to go to Swallowmania...just have to work on the French and convince the girlfriend she Needs to go.

J

[U-turn]

Hi,

For easy rides (also used with Softboots) You should take shapes with tail design, like the Nitro Saber.

For powerfull and fast rides (around / above Highway's speed limit), the tails like them on the Pogo's,
give you very much more performance! But, You should afford a good skill of snowboarding to ride them!

There is a big difference (You will feel it), between the both tail-shapes!

[JonDahl]

Seems like Nils should post up here as he has some experience with swallowtails also. Any thoughts?