hardboots for EC: another approach
Moderators: fivat, rilliet, Arnaud, nils
hardboots for EC: another approach
Hello everyone from the deep south of France. Forgive me for the translation, I do my best...
It's Nils it seems to me that had made a post detailing the specifications of the ideal shoe: shoe and especially rigid collar, no friction in the pivot between the two, flexible junction and of course spring system to adjust the flexion. The goal is to have only the stiffness of the spring as a setting parameter.
Reading this post I thought that the evolution of modern touring shoes brought them closer to these criteria. A kind of homecoming since at the beginning of alpine surfing, we turned off touring shoes before the arrival of dedicated hardboots...
It was the release of Arc'Teryx Procline last season that gave me brain boiling, it really met the specifications, just need to put springs ... After test I was disappointed, the design of the necklace in three parts (a rear plus two side) that if we remove the back to put the springs we lose the lateral rigidity (they are designed for that by the way). I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of the footwear and maintaining the kick despite the compact hull.
It is from there that I added a line to the specifications: length of the shoe. I am very pleased with my modified Raichle 124 (no more excessive deformation of the hull with the springs and the ablation of some plastic) then to change as much to have something to gain: shorten the length, system of springs included, to gain some precious degree of angle on the board.
I tried and measured all the models that I could to build a database. The shorter ones are often the lightest and of a design rather turned towards the climbing in touring, with minimalist maintenance system just like the liner, not good ... The models more typed for descent see their length increase in variable proportions but some could be modified. The best compromise seemed to be the Atomic Backland, especially the carbon version. An output of the year more than 600 euros anyway ...
This season I'm going back to the game because the Backlands of last year are in sales or are starting to arrive on used conditions. I look at the technical data and there Wow, they are still strong Austrians! Hull and liner thermoformable, two rigidities of tongues in the catalog (carbon model), frictionless pivot and possibility of simply disassemble the original system of hook to replace it by an ACSS (return to the origin possible thus).
I found a used pair at my size in good condition for 200 euros so no excuse, I start!
Here is the result:
It works great, I could only try them one day because just finished at the end of the season but it was conclusive. A max of flexion available and the need to harden the springs, usually it is the right opposite!
About comfort, I had prepared to suffer with the touring liners but it was bearable even on a big day (it's not slippers either huh!).
Level settings: I immediately found what I needed and did not change the whole day, very good support and great lateral rigidity.
I could try flexible tongues, it is bluffing, there is no more than the springs that work in this case, it feels good.
Compared to Raichle I gain 13 mm overall length and especially 900 g per shoe ...
Compatibility bindings: OK on the Phiokka but their calipers are very bulky and we lose a little length ... So I mounted Snowpro calipers (always available!) And there it's fine.
On the F2 Titanium the front caliper is perfect but the rear caliper is too high and the shoe takes off, solution: replace it front intec caliper adjustable in height: validated
On the Emery race / Rossignol Race, perfect no changes
On the Redline, I promise to test it quickly ....
The test being conclusive I offered them real liners:
Basically I took the problem in the opposite direction, instead of softening rigid shoes, I harden shoes designed to have no friction.
There I take fun testing springs, we can vary from a very flexible configuration (free ride), medium (EC) to very hard (race) all without changing the pair ...
I made an abacus (power / operating lenght) for fourteen springs configurations, single or double.
Hard testing next season...
It's Nils it seems to me that had made a post detailing the specifications of the ideal shoe: shoe and especially rigid collar, no friction in the pivot between the two, flexible junction and of course spring system to adjust the flexion. The goal is to have only the stiffness of the spring as a setting parameter.
Reading this post I thought that the evolution of modern touring shoes brought them closer to these criteria. A kind of homecoming since at the beginning of alpine surfing, we turned off touring shoes before the arrival of dedicated hardboots...
It was the release of Arc'Teryx Procline last season that gave me brain boiling, it really met the specifications, just need to put springs ... After test I was disappointed, the design of the necklace in three parts (a rear plus two side) that if we remove the back to put the springs we lose the lateral rigidity (they are designed for that by the way). I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of the footwear and maintaining the kick despite the compact hull.
It is from there that I added a line to the specifications: length of the shoe. I am very pleased with my modified Raichle 124 (no more excessive deformation of the hull with the springs and the ablation of some plastic) then to change as much to have something to gain: shorten the length, system of springs included, to gain some precious degree of angle on the board.
I tried and measured all the models that I could to build a database. The shorter ones are often the lightest and of a design rather turned towards the climbing in touring, with minimalist maintenance system just like the liner, not good ... The models more typed for descent see their length increase in variable proportions but some could be modified. The best compromise seemed to be the Atomic Backland, especially the carbon version. An output of the year more than 600 euros anyway ...
This season I'm going back to the game because the Backlands of last year are in sales or are starting to arrive on used conditions. I look at the technical data and there Wow, they are still strong Austrians! Hull and liner thermoformable, two rigidities of tongues in the catalog (carbon model), frictionless pivot and possibility of simply disassemble the original system of hook to replace it by an ACSS (return to the origin possible thus).
I found a used pair at my size in good condition for 200 euros so no excuse, I start!
Here is the result:
It works great, I could only try them one day because just finished at the end of the season but it was conclusive. A max of flexion available and the need to harden the springs, usually it is the right opposite!
About comfort, I had prepared to suffer with the touring liners but it was bearable even on a big day (it's not slippers either huh!).
Level settings: I immediately found what I needed and did not change the whole day, very good support and great lateral rigidity.
I could try flexible tongues, it is bluffing, there is no more than the springs that work in this case, it feels good.
Compared to Raichle I gain 13 mm overall length and especially 900 g per shoe ...
Compatibility bindings: OK on the Phiokka but their calipers are very bulky and we lose a little length ... So I mounted Snowpro calipers (always available!) And there it's fine.
On the F2 Titanium the front caliper is perfect but the rear caliper is too high and the shoe takes off, solution: replace it front intec caliper adjustable in height: validated
On the Emery race / Rossignol Race, perfect no changes
On the Redline, I promise to test it quickly ....
The test being conclusive I offered them real liners:
Basically I took the problem in the opposite direction, instead of softening rigid shoes, I harden shoes designed to have no friction.
There I take fun testing springs, we can vary from a very flexible configuration (free ride), medium (EC) to very hard (race) all without changing the pair ...
I made an abacus (power / operating lenght) for fourteen springs configurations, single or double.
Hard testing next season...
ECpro161M,F2,Raichle124+ACSS+Palau
SwellPanik Magistral175
Volkl Selecta163
SP Fastec,Burton DriverX
SwellPanik Magistral175
Volkl Selecta163
SP Fastec,Burton DriverX
- nils
- Swoard founder
- Posts: 3043
- Joined: Friday 22 March 2002, 19:22
- Location: Lyon, France - Swoard team
- Contact:
Re: hardboots for EC: another approach
Thank you !!
Pokkis, we can have your insight too
Nils
Pokkis, we can have your insight too
Nils
Re: hardboots for EC: another approach
First proto, mondo 25,5 / 278mm.
I can set even 45/45 degrees .
I hope I´ll have real dual-boots - for Pro and Dual using different springs.
Backland weight is 900 g and .950 weight is 1900 g. Plus softboots weight...
Thanks Pokkis and rahan31 .
I can set even 45/45 degrees .
I hope I´ll have real dual-boots - for Pro and Dual using different springs.
Backland weight is 900 g and .950 weight is 1900 g. Plus softboots weight...
Thanks Pokkis and rahan31 .
- Attachments
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- Proto_2.jpg (153.11 KiB) Viewed 60332 times
Pro 2
.950
Complete
.950
Complete
Re: hardboots for EC: another approach
Problem with Redline .
- Attachments
-
- Redline.jpg (131.56 KiB) Viewed 60331 times
Pro 2
.950
Complete
.950
Complete
- nils
- Swoard founder
- Posts: 3043
- Joined: Friday 22 March 2002, 19:22
- Location: Lyon, France - Swoard team
- Contact:
Re: hardboots for EC: another approach
Hello Matti
No backside spring?
Nils
No backside spring?
Nils
Re: hardboots for EC: another approach
I've adjusted all my boots so upright position that i dont need backside spring.
Re: hardboots for EC: another approach
Hello Nils,nils wrote:Hello Matti
No backside spring?
Nils
Never used backside spring.
I can adjust the angle as I want.
Pro 2
.950
Complete
.950
Complete
Re: hardboots for EC: another approach
Welcome aboard Matti!
I tried the Redline too:
Yes there is a little space on the rear sides.
But for me it's not a problem, the boot don't move, retention is good.
Same thing on my Phiokka, already ride them and nothing moved.
@Matti: Did you use aloy or staintess steel for the U shape part? Aloy is not strong enough for the pivot system and will ovalise. The spring you use looks pretty stiff (about 634 N if ISO10243), all I tried were softer. The hardest I have is 547 N and I will not use it. For using softer springs I use a 5 mm rod instead of a 6 mm one. Don't forget to secure the lower nut when riding.
I just start a second pair for a friend, backland carvers family is growing!
I tried the Redline too:
Yes there is a little space on the rear sides.
But for me it's not a problem, the boot don't move, retention is good.
Same thing on my Phiokka, already ride them and nothing moved.
@Matti: Did you use aloy or staintess steel for the U shape part? Aloy is not strong enough for the pivot system and will ovalise. The spring you use looks pretty stiff (about 634 N if ISO10243), all I tried were softer. The hardest I have is 547 N and I will not use it. For using softer springs I use a 5 mm rod instead of a 6 mm one. Don't forget to secure the lower nut when riding.
I just start a second pair for a friend, backland carvers family is growing!
ECpro161M,F2,Raichle124+ACSS+Palau
SwellPanik Magistral175
Volkl Selecta163
SP Fastec,Burton DriverX
SwellPanik Magistral175
Volkl Selecta163
SP Fastec,Burton DriverX
Re: hardboots for EC: another approach
Can anyone compare this boot to .950 or even better .951?
I am looking for new boots to replace my upz, since I find them too stiff on forward flex (with red tongue and springs).... I am too lightweight for them
Go with .951 or atomic? Price is less important, need to modify is also not a problem...
I am looking for new boots to replace my upz, since I find them too stiff on forward flex (with red tongue and springs).... I am too lightweight for them
Go with .951 or atomic? Price is less important, need to modify is also not a problem...
Re: hardboots for EC: another approach
I have both and ride only off-piste with Atomics. I don't want kill my ankles.
- joemzl
- Moderator
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- Joined: Tuesday 5 September 2006, 20:29
- Location: where Varus died in Germany // above you see, why I came to snowboarding: the Vitelli Turn
Re: hardboots for EC: another approach
Red tongue and original springs or ACSS?
Extreme Dreamer every night
Swoard Pro 175M +Race Ti Flex, Plasma CE185/17, Swoard Stoke 162M
Swoard Pro 175M +Race Ti Flex, Plasma CE185/17, Swoard Stoke 162M
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- Administrator
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Re: hardboots for EC: another approach
I'm 1m72/60kg... and red tongues + acss is just perfect...
EC PRO2 161M-168S / Gen5 161S / Dual2-163 / Stoke 154S / EC12