tips wanted to overcome toeside turn fear

[keepTheSport]

I've come to realise that my toe side turns will not progress because for some reason I have developed a mental fear of falling backwards down the hill...

It's all linked to the knowledge that I should twist my upper body towards the up hill as far as possible.....so I've now got a fearful vision .....
.... toeside turns are meant to be easier but I consciously won't turn my upper body that far round because of this ...

As for my heel edge turns they're getting pretty good..when I make a mistake I know what i've done wrong, and it's usually not enough upper body twist uphill..or on the odd occasion straightening my legs too much on the push of the turn and not leaving a slight bend at the knees. Why have I not developed a fear of falling flat on my face downhill?

Does anyone have a suggestion of how I could visualize my toeside turn?

[corviuscorvax]

When exactly does this fear hit you? What part of the turn? The initiation or at the end?

For toeside, your chest should be facing downhill just after you have finished your heelside turn (kind of - I'm leaving out the rotation to get an idea of what you're talking about). When you start the toeside turn, the only time your chest is truly facing directly up hill would be at the conclusion of the toeside turn.

Are you worried that you will catch the heel edge while in toe? I'm just trying to get a better sense of what's happening.

[manuchill]

@keepTheSport is it possible for you to record some of the movement you're talking about and publish it online, since that would be much easier to constructive feedback

[Aracan]

keeptheSport
I believe you got the terms "toeside" and "heelside" mixed up, which may confuse other members.

[keepTheSport]

Corviuscorvax, i'm comfortable carving uphill at end of heel side carve of I need to cut speed or I just carve across mountain on heel side ...i'm okay at getting onto toe edge but I know i'm not rotating early enough for toeside turn ( before end of heel edge carve)...as soon as i'm on my toe side I keep looking down hill, instead of across, it's like i'm half ready to rotate for heel side before I should...I rarely carve up /twist body up hill (as it's twisted downhill) on toe side, as I think I will probably catch my down hill edge.

I thought I'd 'grow out of this' but I haven't...

Manuchill,, I really should get a video ...i.ll try to get someone to video me.

Hope I've explained enough to go on with in the meantime, it's definitely toe side that's a problem.

Cheers for help so far

[Hans]

If you are regular try to reach with your left hand at your right knee, your upperbody will turn.

[corviuscorvax]

ok, I think I understand. By definition, if you are continuing to look downhill as you progress through toeside, you are counter-rotating. I'm thinking that you don't need advice on snowboarding, but rather you need advice on fear management I think you already know that your technique is not correct, and you know the correct technique, you just can't bring yourself to do it.

So this advice may turn more philosophical than technical

Getting over fear is counter-intuitive. Our bodies and minds react to things in order to protect us from harm. We tend to fear things that will hurt us. Now, there are rational fears and there are irrational fears. Philosophers say that what separates humans from animals is that we can "think about thinking." We can control our fears, sometimes just mentally. It's not easy, and sometimes it's not wise. For example, we are afraid of jumping off of a bridge. Sure, you could convince yourself that you were not afraid, but that would be dumb because then you'd die!

Here, with snowboarding, you have seen this done. You know that other people go toeside and don't catch their edge. So this is a scenario where your fear is (to some degree) irrational. You can conquer this fear. There are tons of mental tricks you can use, I have my own personal ones that I use to conquer fear - so I can really only tell you what works for me.

Get some protective gear, at least a spine protector and some knee pads. Having pads on, at least for me, really helps my confidence level because i know if I fall, it wont hurt as much. Remember your safety net - you are so close to the snow that if you fall, it wont matter. Also, the lower you go, the less chance your heel has to catch. Another way to help fear is to approach things slowly. Set up drills for yourself where you slowly start to look up hill. Just do one turn, stop, then do another turn. Each time try to rotate just a little more, and try to look uphill just a little more. Go back to basics - don't try to lay out or get as low as possible, just do some nice, easy toeside turns on a green where you feel comfortable, making sure that you are rotating correctly.

Everyone has their fears and noone is ever an expert instantly. Even the best riders were beginners once and had their own demons to slay.
It's not whether you can do it, it's whether you give up before you can.

[keepTheSport]

Corviuscorvax,, you are exactly right...I know i'm counter rotating and, "... you just can't bring yourself to do it."

Admittedly, I have done Swiss rotation properly for toe side but it just leaves me feeling very uncomfortable with a fear, whereas coming off toe side and onto heelside I found easy, natural and comfortable.

i'm not the kind of female that minds falling, this is why I find this most peculiar and decided to ask for yes even the philosophy of snowboarding
I think your point of, if i'm low, then there's less likelihood of catching back edge., is good....I shall try that...
I like to have images in my mind that help with the technique. Sometimes those images are analogies...i'm trying to think of a good analogy such that it takes the fear out but brings in the technique.

I know you're trying to help which I appreciate but I've tried the one drill at a time, take it easy, take it slowly..it's just not working, I need a mental picture/..I just can't think of any however I do have the get real low to to be getting on with


Thanks

[corviuscorvax]

Have you seen the softboot EC tutorials on youtube? To go toeside, they crouch basically as low as they can while rotating. Maybe you could try just crouching and riding through the turn statically (i.e., no rotation, just ride it out).

The biggest analogy that helped me understand when and how much to rotate for toe:

Ok, imagine you are just ending your heelside, but you're still in "plus" position, roughly facing the nose of the board. From here, don't even think about rotation. When you are ready to change edges, imagine there is a box in between your feet, and you have to turn and pick it up. The faster you turn and bend down with your knees to grab that box, the better your turn will be.

For what it's worth: I have taken my fair share of falls doing stupid stuff, being lazy, riding while tired, or just, again, being stupid. I have NEVER caught my heel edge while entering a toeside carve. The change to toeside should be thrilling. I know a lot of people don't like to use the term "leap of faith" when you start a toeside turn, but in a way I think that term is accurate. For a brief period, your board is up the mountain and you are down the mountain.

It's interesting, everyone who I've taught has trouble going from toe to heel, never from heel to toe like you. But my fiance is the same as you, she has a fear of committing to toeside, but heelside she is aggressive and does it really well.

[keepTheSport]

Hahaha...your fiance has same issue...makes me feel a bit more normal

I like the idea of the box, so I just tip over onto the downhill edge and try and twist round to pick box up with my knees? I could try that.

Catching my downhill edge is related to the start and end part of the toe side carve. At the end, it's the uphill part of the carve with my back facing downhill almost. I'm also concerned about a straight liner hitting me from the front and knocking me backwards downhill...

...hmmmm....I've obviously been reading too much...although I've spotted many straight liners from looking over my shoulder uphill on heel edge which has saved my bacon.

thanks again..I will try the box thing this Saturday, even if I get one part right it's a good start