Hi Shaggy
I pulled out my Northwave and Raichle boots for a closer look at the possibility of your idea. You know, it might just work. It would take some serious Dremel tool work, and you may have to sacrifice a pair of boots in the name of science ... but it could be done.
The real problem is you will not be able to find the NW parts. I tried to get only the springs directly from NW in Italy, they no longer are available.
Check out this thread, Whitey installed his RAB upside down on his Raichle boot.
viewtopic.php?t=925
Whitey gives this link to a movie and pictures of his modification.
http://www.takamaasto.net/boots/
Adding stackable flatwire springs (like the NW’s) to Whitey’s RAB modification might give you a simple and effective copy of the NW spring system.
I hope that someone like Fin of Bomber decides to produce a better version of the RAB!
Drop me an e-mail if you would like more pictures of the NW spring system.
Rob
springs for Northwave boots
Moderators: fivat, rilliet, Arnaud, nils
RAB and .....
Thanks for the help Rob! I'll at least modify my RAB's and try the upside down trick! Still want the "progressive" springs of the modified Northwave set up though.
Shaggy
Shaggy
Raichle Boots (Deelux Indy)
Hey,
Can someone pls explain me what difference the up-side-down-scenario makes? I've read the postings a couple of times, but just could not get the point..... Monday mornings are sleepy... (Maybee I just need to grab my pair of Indy and think it over...)
Furthermore, does anyone have an idea about specs of a spring that could be applied for a Deelux Indy, for a 90kg rider? I think I could get any springs produced easily at local small manufacturers.
Kindest,
István
Can someone pls explain me what difference the up-side-down-scenario makes? I've read the postings a couple of times, but just could not get the point..... Monday mornings are sleepy... (Maybee I just need to grab my pair of Indy and think it over...)
Furthermore, does anyone have an idea about specs of a spring that could be applied for a Deelux Indy, for a 90kg rider? I think I could get any springs produced easily at local small manufacturers.
Kindest,
István
Hey Istvàn!
The point of the Upside-Down setting is just a question of boot length... It's shorter like this
Check this:
viewtopic.php?t=732
And for the spring setting, J&P don't give exact value as they have found good settings by testing differents springs.
Up to your feelings!
Cheers!
The point of the Upside-Down setting is just a question of boot length... It's shorter like this
Check this:
viewtopic.php?t=732
And for the spring setting, J&P don't give exact value as they have found good settings by testing differents springs.
Up to your feelings!
Cheers!
M@.
SWOARD 168H / BLAST 162 / Burton Race / SB324
SWOARD 168H / BLAST 162 / Burton Race / SB324
Srpings
Well, thanks for the reply. I have downloaded both videos (J&P and Whitey).
I'll check at home if the up-side down manouver can be done without doing some irreversible damage to the boots. Still, I believe that from a flex perspective, having the same spring regularily or upside-down, will not make a difference.
In the J&P test report it is written that it makes the boot shorter, I think that is right in principle, but I am not sure if it has a real effect on the slopes, i.e. I'm not sure if the spring system would be the first to touch the snow at backsides, but rather the heel itself. I'll check it at home. However, if the board is wide enough, and the boots are not too huge, I believe it is irrelevant.
On the other hand, what J&P is pointing out (that the two parts get jammed) really seems annoying. I have never experienced that, but the reason for this is that even the softer springs do not allow such a position. I'll check that too without springs.
Now I'm back again to specs of the springs, and this is what we do not know at the moment.....
Cheers,
István
ps.: Matt, what bike do you ride? I have an SV650S, but this season I decided that I'll buy an R1 next year. Not if I was that great of a rider, but I need a bit more torque and HPs.....
I'll check at home if the up-side down manouver can be done without doing some irreversible damage to the boots. Still, I believe that from a flex perspective, having the same spring regularily or upside-down, will not make a difference.
In the J&P test report it is written that it makes the boot shorter, I think that is right in principle, but I am not sure if it has a real effect on the slopes, i.e. I'm not sure if the spring system would be the first to touch the snow at backsides, but rather the heel itself. I'll check it at home. However, if the board is wide enough, and the boots are not too huge, I believe it is irrelevant.
On the other hand, what J&P is pointing out (that the two parts get jammed) really seems annoying. I have never experienced that, but the reason for this is that even the softer springs do not allow such a position. I'll check that too without springs.
Now I'm back again to specs of the springs, and this is what we do not know at the moment.....
Cheers,
István
ps.: Matt, what bike do you ride? I have an SV650S, but this season I decided that I'll buy an R1 next year. Not if I was that great of a rider, but I need a bit more torque and HPs.....
Re: Srpings
Hey!István wrote:ps.: Matt, what bike do you ride? I have an SV650S, but this season I decided that I'll buy an R1 next year. Not if I was that great of a rider, but I need a bit more torque and HPs.....
I ride for a couple of years now a KTM DUKE first generation (orange)
Powerfull enough on small and curvy roads we have around here in the mountains...
Actually I have to admit I've always wanted to try the SV650... stil havent done it yet! May be next year!
Wow big difference from SV to R1... Take care with your wristle...
Cheers.
M@.
SWOARD 168H / BLAST 162 / Burton Race / SB324
SWOARD 168H / BLAST 162 / Burton Race / SB324
R1
Well, both at motorbiking and carving you make the decisions... and then you bear the consequences.
The only difference is, that while at EC a bad mistake results in a wrist, back or shoulder injury and some broken equipment, at motorbiking broken bones are the lucky outcome, while the unlucky scenario is that you'll get a ticket to the slopes of heaven....
Cheers,
István
The only difference is, that while at EC a bad mistake results in a wrist, back or shoulder injury and some broken equipment, at motorbiking broken bones are the lucky outcome, while the unlucky scenario is that you'll get a ticket to the slopes of heaven....
Cheers,
István
Upside Down RAB
HI guys
Whiteys’ modification does not use the original long, large center brass RAB spring guide.
This seems to have created more room for the spring to move, eliminating most if not all of the ‘jamming.’
Guess we will find out this winter if it actually works on snow.
Rob
Whiteys’ modification does not use the original long, large center brass RAB spring guide.
This seems to have created more room for the spring to move, eliminating most if not all of the ‘jamming.’
Guess we will find out this winter if it actually works on snow.
Rob
Well,
Whitey has also cut the half of the RAB out/away, you can see it at the picture. So less jamming is the result. Even if you use the original springs, I think you have less jamming with this modification. I think I am gonna experiment with this with my AF 700 because I have an extra pare of boots now: STROLZ (custom) Raceplates.
Greets, Hans.
Whitey has also cut the half of the RAB out/away, you can see it at the picture. So less jamming is the result. Even if you use the original springs, I think you have less jamming with this modification. I think I am gonna experiment with this with my AF 700 because I have an extra pare of boots now: STROLZ (custom) Raceplates.
Greets, Hans.
Hello EC’ers,
well, for my pleasure I can see that you guys have been studying my RAB mod. Go ahead, hopefully you can find the pics useful when/if setting up your versions. But let me explain couple of things, which you might find advantageous as well.
When checking the cmachine’s mod -> http://www.carver.cc/clips/spring_system_clip.avi, it can be seen that he has an especially designed brass nut. If you don’t have it, the system doesn’t work properly because the original nut chafes really badly against the plastic nodule of your boot. This happens due to a new, longer spring. If you have this sort of designed nut, the new nut slides nicely without any friction or jamming with the nodule. When I was doing my mod, I had only the original RAB parts, so to avoid this friction I just turned the whole thing upside down. Also, I just wanted to see by curiosity, if it fits both ways. I’m not an expert on this but I believe that if you can just somehow avoid any jamming and friction, it doesn’t make in practise any thoroughgoing difference, which way you install your RAB.
To get advantage of modified RAB, I also had to cut away quite much of the boot plastic from the frontside of the boots. Check http://www.takamaasto.net/boots/boot_frontside.jpg, and you see it. I know it looks quite bad but actually I don’t care about it. Like a rider, like a boot: I’m not a boy band member myself
I also added one more pic, spring4.jpg, to show you I have cut away all the unnecessary threads from the bolts since my last post. By doing this, the RAB version works without any friction between the bolt and the spring without using a brass tube between them. When flexing the boot, I cannot hear any mechanical noise at all anymore.
By doing this sort of mod, basically you don’t have much left from the original RAB. I mean maybe it would be a better idea to mechanize all the needed parts by yourself, if you have the needed tools available.
well, for my pleasure I can see that you guys have been studying my RAB mod. Go ahead, hopefully you can find the pics useful when/if setting up your versions. But let me explain couple of things, which you might find advantageous as well.
When checking the cmachine’s mod -> http://www.carver.cc/clips/spring_system_clip.avi, it can be seen that he has an especially designed brass nut. If you don’t have it, the system doesn’t work properly because the original nut chafes really badly against the plastic nodule of your boot. This happens due to a new, longer spring. If you have this sort of designed nut, the new nut slides nicely without any friction or jamming with the nodule. When I was doing my mod, I had only the original RAB parts, so to avoid this friction I just turned the whole thing upside down. Also, I just wanted to see by curiosity, if it fits both ways. I’m not an expert on this but I believe that if you can just somehow avoid any jamming and friction, it doesn’t make in practise any thoroughgoing difference, which way you install your RAB.
To get advantage of modified RAB, I also had to cut away quite much of the boot plastic from the frontside of the boots. Check http://www.takamaasto.net/boots/boot_frontside.jpg, and you see it. I know it looks quite bad but actually I don’t care about it. Like a rider, like a boot: I’m not a boy band member myself
I also added one more pic, spring4.jpg, to show you I have cut away all the unnecessary threads from the bolts since my last post. By doing this, the RAB version works without any friction between the bolt and the spring without using a brass tube between them. When flexing the boot, I cannot hear any mechanical noise at all anymore.
By doing this sort of mod, basically you don’t have much left from the original RAB. I mean maybe it would be a better idea to mechanize all the needed parts by yourself, if you have the needed tools available.
RAB for Raichle 323
Hi,
I have followed this interesting discussion. I have a pair of Raichle 323 (the golden ones). They fit very good on my feet so I wonder if anyone knows whether this model can be modified with the RAB system? Maybe this question has been asked and answered before, but I ask again.
I have followed this interesting discussion. I have a pair of Raichle 323 (the golden ones). They fit very good on my feet so I wonder if anyone knows whether this model can be modified with the RAB system? Maybe this question has been asked and answered before, but I ask again.
harald
RAB
Hi Harald
I couldn’t find a picture of the 323’s on line.
Do your boots have the ride/relax lever, the thing that flips up and down, at the back? If yes, I would almost guarantee that the RAB will work.
The size and shape of the area that accepts the RAB and/or the Ride-Relax mechanism is the same. Raichle/DeeLuxe boots have also not changed this part of the boot.
Just push the top and bottom pins out and drop in the RAB .... upside down of course
Rob
I couldn’t find a picture of the 323’s on line.
Do your boots have the ride/relax lever, the thing that flips up and down, at the back? If yes, I would almost guarantee that the RAB will work.
The size and shape of the area that accepts the RAB and/or the Ride-Relax mechanism is the same. Raichle/DeeLuxe boots have also not changed this part of the boot.
Just push the top and bottom pins out and drop in the RAB .... upside down of course
Rob
RAB for Raichle 323
Hi Rob,
Many thanks. Yes, the Raichle 323 have a ride, relax device at the back. I found a picture of the model of Raichle 323 that I have (the golden one) at www.dataroad.net/goldsmiths. It is also a picture of the boot in the thread about Voodo boots, created by Pete in January, viewtopic.php?p=4107&highlight=#4107. Anyway, I will buy a RAB system and try to modify my Raichles.
Many thanks. Yes, the Raichle 323 have a ride, relax device at the back. I found a picture of the model of Raichle 323 that I have (the golden one) at www.dataroad.net/goldsmiths. It is also a picture of the boot in the thread about Voodo boots, created by Pete in January, viewtopic.php?p=4107&highlight=#4107. Anyway, I will buy a RAB system and try to modify my Raichles.
harald
Springs for Deelux Indy
Well, I did the excercise myself, and checked the possibilities to amend the spring system of the Deelux Indy. Pls find below my findings:
- It is not that simple to switch the bolt and the cylindrical case, since they have a different sized ending
- The boot itself in my experience is not flexible enough to perform such a big lean forward.
- Due to the shape of the case and the fact that the bolt is straight they will always get jammed beyond a certain level of forward lean, except if the case has a larger diameter.
- Indeed, turning them up-side-down will make the boot shorter, but with an angualtion of 50-55 degrees, the bolt and the nut is not necessarily to first to touch the snow, but it is rather the side of the heel part.
- Turning the parts up-side down will not have a direct affect on the spring's performance, so if the parts must be modified anyway, maybe it is not that important to turn them up-side down.
Well, this is what I've found when I started to investigate the issue, I'm not saying it's impossible to do (Whitey did it anyway ), but there are certain things that need to be resolved.
On the other hand, for me the boots work fine (much better then eg. Blax), however, my EC knowledge is far below J&P's and I've never tested a Northwave.
Cheers,
István
- It is not that simple to switch the bolt and the cylindrical case, since they have a different sized ending
- The boot itself in my experience is not flexible enough to perform such a big lean forward.
- Due to the shape of the case and the fact that the bolt is straight they will always get jammed beyond a certain level of forward lean, except if the case has a larger diameter.
- Indeed, turning them up-side-down will make the boot shorter, but with an angualtion of 50-55 degrees, the bolt and the nut is not necessarily to first to touch the snow, but it is rather the side of the heel part.
- Turning the parts up-side down will not have a direct affect on the spring's performance, so if the parts must be modified anyway, maybe it is not that important to turn them up-side down.
Well, this is what I've found when I started to investigate the issue, I'm not saying it's impossible to do (Whitey did it anyway
), but there are certain things that need to be resolved.On the other hand, for me the boots work fine (much better then eg. Blax), however, my EC knowledge is far below J&P's and I've never tested a Northwave.
Cheers,
István
Hi Istvan,
Again thanks for all good advices. In fact I have both Northwave boots (i bought them in the spring from Ray, but have never used them) and a pair of UPS Mach something (which are OK) so this is not urgent. However, I liked the Raichles very much and they were excellent on my feet, and I want to have a spare pair just in case. So, in the long autumn evenings this modification could be something to do between training sessions and waiting for the winter to come. But since I am not that technical, maybe I will keep my Raicles 323 as they are. At least, I have now a lot of input to do the operation.
Again thanks for all good advices. In fact I have both Northwave boots (i bought them in the spring from Ray, but have never used them) and a pair of UPS Mach something (which are OK) so this is not urgent. However, I liked the Raichles very much and they were excellent on my feet, and I want to have a spare pair just in case. So, in the long autumn evenings this modification could be something to do between training sessions and waiting for the winter to come. But since I am not that technical, maybe I will keep my Raicles 323 as they are. At least, I have now a lot of input to do the operation.
harald