I think he replaced Juego on something more transparent and strongtommaso2k wrote:luomu,
can you please inform me as well how you improved your technique - either reply her to make it visible or copy me a PM.
THanks in advance.
Regards
Tom
)))Spring carving photos.
Moderators: fivat, rilliet, Arnaud, nils
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starikashka
- Rank 5
- Posts: 963
- Joined: Friday 29 February 2008, 20:07
- Location: Russia
- Contact:
Heh, it's starting to sound like there's some secret know-how to this sport and now by some accident I've gotten into the 'know'.
I'm afraid there is no quick path to nirvana, it's all about first learning the basics, then building on that and trying to pick the best of the advice from fellow trench diggers.
But I'll share what I've learned. It might be obvious to you, and I might be absolutely wrong in some things (and it is ok and recommended to correct me in such cases). Since we all are struggling with our own problems, these tips may only be helpful if you have problems similar to mine.
Be warned: The information and ideas given below may be All Wrong!
Season 10/11
I guess the path to a somewhat nice backside is there for everyone to see.
It consists of breadcrumbs spread over on ec.com and the forum.
Check the materials of extremecarving.com and then especially the evGen training video in slow motion for a technique how-to, since some of the technique videos on this site are of so poor quality it is difficult to make out what they are trying to describe.
I've been trying to make a decent backside for some years and this season I think there's been a breakthrough. The videos and pictures taken kind of support that feeling .
The key elements were the following;
1) in Zinal ECS, with Matti we spend a lot of time analyzing our turns and trying to concentrate on improving the elements in there. One of the most important things proved to be starting the turn from the 'back seat':
<- like so, but lower and mind the 'egyptian hands'.
In Zinal at the Sorebois station we were enjoying the Vin Chaude, while
EvGen was showing the EC how-to for a group.
He was demonstrating this position (or something similar, feel free to post a better picture!) and also the direction of how to straighten up during the turn.
To be able to do this, you need to have enough flex in the boots. Stiff race boot just is not made for EC. The NW is the legendary choice, but I'm quite happy with my current setup. As said, I had BTS with blue springs, changed to yellow springs, but Abrax's ACSS made a big difference since it has a more natural flex. Recommend it for Deeluxe.
2) Timing of Rotation.
This we were wondering a lot about, since in the Book you learn to rotate first to initiate the turn. BUT of course when you start to do actual EC, you rotate during the turn. So the rotation starts when you get down to the back seat (turns your hip nicely) and continues as you push up and even a bit after you are already straight "up".
(comments?)
3) Direction of rising up.
Another thing that you could clearly follow from Evgenis example. I wanted to get up straight. But indeed you need to straighten a bit forward, towards the nose.
4) Rhythm of turns and rotation
- It is easy to fail the backside before you start, if you have already rotation when you start shifting the cant.
Since I in my own opinion already had a decent frontside and my problem was clearly getting the rotation and correct rhythm to the backside turn, the above elements were the keys in improving.
So: back seat, rotation, direction of straightening.
Also check what you are doing with your hands! You should not be doing anything most of the time (a tip from Rey and again a good one!).
So, in the backside turn, keep the 'rear' hand to your body and lift the 'front' hand up to meet the snow when you go down - not forward.
Same in front side turn. If you take the frontside turn with your rear hand going forward, you end up counter-rotating.
Actually, come to think of it, Evgeni was distinctly showing these things too.
He has obviously put a lot of time into going through the theory of what he does - and we can all see the result. So the best way to get fast results is propably to fix yourself on a course with eVgen and Rey.
Also in the last backside (and the following start of frontside where the film ends) of this slow motion I think the point I'm trying to make is visible:
http://www.pensnowboard.com/ukko4.mpg [/b] [/img]
I'm afraid there is no quick path to nirvana, it's all about first learning the basics, then building on that and trying to pick the best of the advice from fellow trench diggers.
But I'll share what I've learned. It might be obvious to you, and I might be absolutely wrong in some things (and it is ok and recommended to correct me in such cases). Since we all are struggling with our own problems, these tips may only be helpful if you have problems similar to mine.
Be warned: The information and ideas given below may be All Wrong!
Season 10/11
I guess the path to a somewhat nice backside is there for everyone to see.
It consists of breadcrumbs spread over on ec.com and the forum.
Check the materials of extremecarving.com and then especially the evGen training video in slow motion for a technique how-to, since some of the technique videos on this site are of so poor quality it is difficult to make out what they are trying to describe.
I've been trying to make a decent backside for some years and this season I think there's been a breakthrough. The videos and pictures taken kind of support that feeling
.The key elements were the following;
1) in Zinal ECS, with Matti we spend a lot of time analyzing our turns and trying to concentrate on improving the elements in there. One of the most important things proved to be starting the turn from the 'back seat':
<- like so, but lower and mind the 'egyptian hands'.
In Zinal at the Sorebois station we were enjoying the Vin Chaude, while
EvGen was showing the EC how-to for a group.
He was demonstrating this position (or something similar, feel free to post a better picture!) and also the direction of how to straighten up during the turn.
To be able to do this, you need to have enough flex in the boots. Stiff race boot just is not made for EC. The NW is the legendary choice, but I'm quite happy with my current setup. As said, I had BTS with blue springs, changed to yellow springs, but Abrax's ACSS made a big difference since it has a more natural flex. Recommend it for Deeluxe.
2) Timing of Rotation.
This we were wondering a lot about, since in the Book you learn to rotate first to initiate the turn. BUT of course when you start to do actual EC, you rotate during the turn. So the rotation starts when you get down to the back seat (turns your hip nicely) and continues as you push up and even a bit after you are already straight "up".
(comments?)
3) Direction of rising up.
Another thing that you could clearly follow from Evgenis example. I wanted to get up straight. But indeed you need to straighten a bit forward, towards the nose.
4) Rhythm of turns and rotation
- It is easy to fail the backside before you start, if you have already rotation when you start shifting the cant.
Since I in my own opinion already had a decent frontside and my problem was clearly getting the rotation and correct rhythm to the backside turn, the above elements were the keys in improving.
So: back seat, rotation, direction of straightening.
Also check what you are doing with your hands! You should not be doing anything most of the time (a tip from Rey and again a good one!).
So, in the backside turn, keep the 'rear' hand to your body and lift the 'front' hand up to meet the snow when you go down - not forward.
Same in front side turn. If you take the frontside turn with your rear hand going forward, you end up counter-rotating.
Actually, come to think of it, Evgeni was distinctly showing these things too.
He has obviously put a lot of time into going through the theory of what he does - and we can all see the result. So the best way to get fast results is propably to fix yourself on a course with eVgen and Rey.
Also in the last backside (and the following start of frontside where the film ends) of this slow motion I think the point I'm trying to make is visible:
http://www.pensnowboard.com/ukko4.mpg [/b] [/img]
I can only subscribe to Luomo's tips and advices. By accident a couple of years ago, I got really deep and initiated the backside turn from the back seat (weight on the rear foot), as Luomo puts it, and, boom, there it was low and fully stretched. Then I had a session on medium (red) slopes on hero snow at mountain resort, completely alone at the slopes giving me time on the slopes to observe what I was doing. I then discovered that when I continued the rotation with hips and shoulders during the whole turn, the pressure went to the front of the board. That gave me a feeling of control that I did not have before and made it possible to finish the turn early and to rise up even on pretty flat sections of the slope.
At the last EC session in Zinal, I was also lucky as Luomo, to watch Ben's instructions and even participate in one class. What I rediscovered was the importance of going really deep, as Luomo shows at the picture, and coming from behind and forwards during the turn, both backsides and frontsides. Also notice Luomo's tips on the hand position in the frontside turns.
It has helped me a lot to practice these tips and exercises on the very easy and flat slopes (green and blue), because failures in distribution of weight is then easily revealed. Usually the weight is too backwards, causing break in the hips, the right arm rising (for regulars) and the nose skidding out. Ben can do the laid backside at a moderate speed and still rise at very flat surfaces. Therefore, also the very easy slopes again are interesting and fun to ride. Myself, I now use them a lot both for EC and ski carving technique training. It is a pity that the snow now melts away so fast.
At the last EC session in Zinal, I was also lucky as Luomo, to watch Ben's instructions and even participate in one class. What I rediscovered was the importance of going really deep, as Luomo shows at the picture, and coming from behind and forwards during the turn, both backsides and frontsides. Also notice Luomo's tips on the hand position in the frontside turns.
It has helped me a lot to practice these tips and exercises on the very easy and flat slopes (green and blue), because failures in distribution of weight is then easily revealed. Usually the weight is too backwards, causing break in the hips, the right arm rising (for regulars) and the nose skidding out. Ben can do the laid backside at a moderate speed and still rise at very flat surfaces. Therefore, also the very easy slopes again are interesting and fun to ride. Myself, I now use them a lot both for EC and ski carving technique training. It is a pity that the snow now melts away so fast.
harald
viewtopic.php?t=9046
Short educational video which I promised.
Short educational video which I promised.
evGen=ben velvet.pro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jVztPStsEA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jVztPStsEA
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fivat
- Swoard & EC founder
- Posts: 3011
- Joined: Thursday 21 March 2002, 13:13
- Location: Geneva, Switzerland
- Contact:
We are very glad to see more and more people understanding the Swoard-extremecarving technique and their tangible benefits. Since 2002 we got critics from people (on Bomber Forum) who said, for example, that the rotation is useless. Now the good extremecarvers perfectly know the advantages! 
It has been a long way since the creation in 2002 of the page https://www.extremecarving.com/tech/tech.html with our first tutorial videos. The videos, the texts and the Forum were not enough: people asked us for a meeting and we started the ECS. We are enthusiastic to see the progression of the participants year after year! What a difference with the first ECS in 2004
Clearly it was worth the (big) effort in organizing all those events! Some technical aspects took 9 years to be understood. It's not surprising because there are many details to understand (I often say "everything is in the details") and people may need to change their habits, what is the most difficult.
Recently a member wrote us to tell that he loves the rotation because he does no "edge mistake" anymore (who has never experienced those brutal falls?). Indeed with the rotation technique, one really drives the board (like a surfer on his board does). This is a natural move and the body is never in opposition to the edge.
Patrice Fivat
It has been a long way since the creation in 2002 of the page https://www.extremecarving.com/tech/tech.html with our first tutorial videos. The videos, the texts and the Forum were not enough: people asked us for a meeting and we started the ECS. We are enthusiastic to see the progression of the participants year after year! What a difference with the first ECS in 2004
Clearly it was worth the (big) effort in organizing all those events! Some technical aspects took 9 years to be understood. It's not surprising because there are many details to understand (I often say "everything is in the details") and people may need to change their habits, what is the most difficult.Exactly, this is one of the advantages of the rotation.harald wrote:I then discovered that when I continued the rotation with hips and shoulders during the whole turn, the pressure went to the front of the board. That gave me a feeling of control that I did not have before and made it possible to finish the turn early and to rise up even on pretty flat sections of the slope.
Recently a member wrote us to tell that he loves the rotation because he does no "edge mistake" anymore (who has never experienced those brutal falls?). Indeed with the rotation technique, one really drives the board (like a surfer on his board does). This is a natural move and the body is never in opposition to the edge.
Patrice Fivat
