Hardboots 2008/2009 - some impressions

Post by **Schneewurm** » Wednesday 29 October 2008, 22:28

Clock was switched back from summertime to the standard time zone and the dark evenings can be spend now for watching movies on the digital-picture 3D-theatre or some others multiplex digital-imagine theatres around.
So, hiking time is gone - snow is falling now all over the country (anything all is white now at instant - like on christmas days!). Just time for a after work walk to the happy hour, picking up a newspaper, drinking a beer and visit the next sporting-goods store. Ready to fit some new hardboots - certainly out of a full range of nearly every available brands and boots, well presented on about 15 meters of a deep shelf (left boot stacked behind the right). I call it: just only a guaranteed basic requirement of any serious and authentic carver in Switzerland.

Well, I know there can be also some people, out on the European-Community and also out on the rest of the world (like perhaps in Portugal, or Africa, or similiar), they are not located next to a snowboard-store. So I want to give them a small overview over the 2008/2009 hardboots, to help them for the decision to chose the right model.

Remark: Keep in mind, boots are a very personal thing. My impressions of them, can not be the same like Yours! Riding a boot can be also very different, then just fiting it (sideflex, colder temperatures, etc.), but fiting give some good first impressions of them.

I was fiting the following harboots (all are 2008/2009 models):

Head Stratos Pro - black - price-tag: SFr. 599.- (Austria: Euro 350.-, France: Euro 370.-)
DeeLuxe Track 225 - grey- price-tag: SFr. 619.- (Germany/France: Euro 300.-)
DeeLuxe Track 325 - black-dull - price-tag: SFr. 639.- (Germany: Euro 340.-, France: Euro 345.-)
DeeLuxe Track 700 - white-red - price-tag: SFr. 739.- (Germany/France: Euro 400.-)
UPZ RX8 - black - price-tag: SFr. 639.- (Germany: Euro ?), also known as Virus UPZ
UPZ RC10 - white-black - price-tag: SFr. 819.- (Germany: Euro 500.-, /France: Euro 485.-), also known as Virus UPZ worldcup

Forward-flex at room temperature (range 1-5):
3 Raichle-325 98/99, few used shell, brand new liner from 98/99, racing tongue
1 Raichle-133, well used, Thermoflex-liner, softest tongue

3 Head Stratos Pro, springs at delivery status of boot
3 DeeLuxe Track 225, soft tongue compared to racing tongue
5 DeeLuxe Track 325, soft tongue compared to racing tongue
4 DeeLuxe Track 700
5 UPZ RX8, springs at delivery status of boot
5 UPZ RC10, springs at delivery status of boot, black tongue

buckles / liner:
Head Stratos Pro: 4 / tongue, thermo-moldable
DeeLuxe Track 225: 4 / overlap
DeeLuxe Track 325: 4 / overlap
DeeLuxe Track 700: 4 / overlap, semifit-thermoflex
UPZ RX8: 4 / tongue / Flow
UPZ RC10: 5 / tongue / Flow

room for forefoot: my experience / sellers idea:
Head Stratos Pro: narrower / wide and high
DeeLuxe Track 225: good fit / narrower
DeeLuxe Track 325: good fit / narrower
DeeLuxe Track 700: wider / wider
UPZ RX8: narrower / wide and high
UPZ RC10: narrower / wide and high

sole-length (EN/mm), lower shell fits how many boot size
Head Stratos Pro: ? / ?
DeeLuxe Track 225: 0 / 2
DeeLuxe Track 325: 0 / 2
DeeLuxe Track 700: +4mm / 2 (up to +7mm at big shoe sizes compared to Track 225/325)
UPZ RX8: +4mm / 3
UPZ RC10: +4mm / 3

Weight of Hardboots in kg/ one boot/ from the same size for all items/ no Intec-heel (of a mid size of boots for men, like you can find it on sample-items of collections):
2.30 kg UPZ RX8 Flow Liner
2.35 kg DeeLuxe Track 325 CoreFit Liner
2.40 kg DeeLuxe Track 225 ThermoFit Liner
2.40 kg DeeLuxe Track 325 ThermoFit Liner
2.40 kg UPZ RC10 Flow Liner
2.60 kg Head Stratos Pro
2.70 kg DeeLuxe Track 700 FullFit Liner
(More boot-weights, also from olders ones, see some threads below!)

Details:
- - - - - -
Head Stratos Pro +
- main-buckle (instep) with extension-lever to close it (= two-time longer lever), but dont't tight it to hard (vascular congestion)
- buckles are good designed for closing and opening
- Head Stratos Pro feels like a realy good hardboot, not to stiff to all side, suitable for freecarve / freeriding
- walk-mechanism with adjustable coils for riding (both; flex and positions)

Head Stratos Pro -
- shin hurts after longer and hard forward lean (tongue construction)
- different shoe sizes are make with inlays.
- - - - - -
Track 225/325 +
- good feeling, people (others and me) feels like "at home". It's realy comparable to the older Raichle boots!
- forward flex is o.k. for 225, on the stiff side for 325

Track 225/325 -
- lower shell-colar can be tricky to close (because of the new buckles)
- buckles range is small and should be adujsted at least at two buckles (needs a wrench allen key)
- - - - - -
Track 700 +
- also a good feeling to fit
- but a kind of totaly other feeling, then of all other boots
- most stylish boot of all (form and colour)

Track 700 -
- at forward lean/flex a special, non well defined feeling (perhaps of asymetrical shape?)
- sold out in some sizes in several stores - just now on end of october 2008 - due the high demand of them!
- - - - - -
UPZ RX8 +
- forward flex strength depends very much from closing force of the buckles (could also be a disadvantage!)
- about the same forward-flex as UPZ RC10, but at a cheeper price (SFr. 640.- -> estimated Euro 340.-)
- adapter plates available for skis and mountaineering skis at SFr. 99.- / Euro 69.- (toe- and heel-adapter interchangeable)

UPZ RX8 -
- hard to get in and out, compared with the other boots
- simple, short and flat buckle-levers. The ends are to narrow on forefoot. I tooks a huge force to open them, I think it's not suitable to open them with gloves!!
- due to the shortness of the buckle-levers, it's difficult to find the exact closing force of the boot.
- shin hurts after longer and hard forward lean (tongue construction)
- toe-adapter on the sole are from cheap plastics - no rubber! -> Very high risk of sliding out, even on a ordinary dry floor!
- not easy to walk, feels like a square-block at walking, walk-mechanism should give a larger flex.
- both adapter on the sole are still fixed with screws showing theire head -> can scratch Your board!.
- high length of boot-sole, depending on foot size, 4mm up to 14mm more lenght then Deeluxe Track 225/325 (example Track 225 MP-26.5 sole-length = 285mm, UPZ MP-26.0 sole-length = 299 mm)
- - - - - -
UPZ RC10 +
- a second pair of tongue are included
- the uper two buckles on colar comes with a holding-spring. Buckles can be left open, without loosing the position on the grooves.
- forward flex strength depends very much from closing force of the buckles (could also be a disadvantage!)
- adapter plates available for skis and mountaineering skis at SFr. 99.- / Euro 69.- (toe- and heel-adapter interchangeable)
- available with foam-liner (boot-price at SFr. 1000.-)

UPZ RC10 -
- hard to get in and out, compared with the other boots
- better and others buckle-levers then on RX-8, but stil to short.
- closing force of buckle-levers is to strong for a good fit, it's difficult to find the exact closing force of the boot.
- shin hurts after longer and hard forward lean (tongue construction)
- toe-adapter on the sole are from cheap plastics - no rubber! -> Very high risk of sliding out, even on a ordinary dry floor!
- not easy to walk, feels like a square-block at walking, walk-mechanism should give a larger flex.
- both adapter on the sole are still fixed with screws showing theire head -> can scratch Your board!.
- high length of boot-sole, depending on foot size, 4mm up to 14mm more lenght then Deeluxe Track 225/325 (example Track 225 MP-26.5 sole-length = 285mm, UPZ MP-26.0 sole-length = 299 mm)
- - - - - -

Conclusion:
I think all boots are good to ride them on alpin-snowboards. All boots are compatibel with heel-adapters from F2-INTEC, Snowpro-FAST, Burton-Physics, Nitro-StepInPlate.
The boots are now on a stiffer flex then years ago (near to softer skiboots). Head Stratos Pro / DeeLuxe Track 225 can be compared with a "stiff" Raichle 325 from last century. Well, perhaps flex has been tuned to the older and now heavier customers of hardboots.
The actual stiffer hardboots don't fit the demand for freeriding with hardboots and also the use to ride with wider boards. Softer hardboots, with plenty of sideflex and a feeling like stiffer softboots, like Raichle SB-313/323, or other models from other brands are no more available yet. Even there are no boots for light-wight carvers or women.
Sure, for freeriding, You can switch walk-modus on, but this doesn't enhance the sideflex. Using Bombers BTS can also help to make the bootflex softer (yellow springs). Remember: at cold temperature, boots can be way stiffer. I tried once a Track 700 in store, later on snow - it was to stiff for me!

Some Hints:
- Women and juniors should go to the Head Stratos Pro (softer and lowest colar of all boots)
- DeeLuxe Track 225/325: use the calf-spoiler from your old Raichles to enhance the power of Your ride (women shouldn't do that!).
- as smaler the board, as stiffer should be the sideflex of the boot. (same rule also for the bindings) -> use UPZ RC10, or UPZ RX8!
- as wider the board, as more sideflex the boots should have. (same rule also for the binding) -> use Head Stratos Pro, or DeeLuxe Track 225
- for "19cm-waist-boards" DeeLuxe Track 325, or Track 700 will be fine.

Post by **nils** » Thursday 30 October 2008, 0:49

interesting work...could you also put small pics of each so people can easily identify them =) thnx
Nils

Post by **The Blitz** » Thursday 30 October 2008, 9:05

Here you are the french price :
http://www.auvieuxcampeur.fr/hiver/snow ... es-rigides

Post by **Schneewurm** » Thursday 30 October 2008, 12:50

nils, pictures not yet, but soon! I'm just to busy now. My swallowtails-boards are on use, I had to switch to my big one!

(see pics from today morning, how I fortell it Yesterday)

Post by **starikashka** » Thursday 30 October 2008, 13:58

i hate this guy

Post by **Hans** » Thursday 30 October 2008, 19:55

Thanks Schneewurm for this 'test' report on dry land.

Seems Switzerland got the most of the white stuff early this season. Pray for more and cold days so we have a good starting season!

Post by **Schneewurm** » Monday 24 November 2008, 22:11

Overview of some weights. (each value is for one boot)

Light weight of an overall raceboard-equipment (board/bindings/boots) let you save some extra energy for extra runs on the day!
Light weight is still also important for all carvers they use their hardboots for ski touring/randonnée, or for hiking up some meters on powder days for best run. Solid touring ski boots, like e.g. them from Scarpa, are at time on about 1.9-2.1 kg (SPIRIT4), the light ones at about 1.15 kg (Scarpa F1 Race).

Weight of hardboots in kg/ one boot/ from the same size for all items/ no Intec-heel: (of a mid size of boots for men, like you can find it on sample-items of collections, *= older boots):

1.95 kg * Raichle SB-313, ThermoFit Liner (Canada), 3 rip-buckles/ 1 strap
2.10 kg * DeeLuxe LeMans ThermoFit Liner (France), 4 rip-buckles
2.30 kg UPZ RX8 Flow Liner, 4 buckles
2.35 kg DeeLuxe Track 325 CoreFit Liner (China), 4 buckles
2.35 kg * DeeLuxe LeMans CoreFit Liner (China), 4 rip-buckles
2.40 kg DeeLuxe Track 225 ThermoFit Liner (China), 4 buckles
2.40 kg DeeLuxe Track 325 ThermoFit Liner (China), 4 buckles
2.40 kg UPZ RC10 Flow Liner, 5 buckles
2.55 kg * Raichle SB-325 HighPerformanceDensity-Liner (Switzerland, most durable, but heavy liner), 4 rip-buckles
2.60 kg * Raichle SB-325-RAB HighPerformanceDensity-Liner (Switzerland, most durable, but heavy liner), 4 rip-buckles
2.60 kg Head Stratos Pro (Italia), 4 buckles
2.60 kg * DeeLuxe Suzuka SemiFit Liner, 4 rip-buckles
2.70 kg DeeLuxe Track 700 FullFit Liner (China), 4 buckles

(first thread on top is now also addet with boot-weights)

with Bomber BTS additional + 0.1 kg!

Post by **pokkis** » Monday 24 November 2008, 22:14

What size?
And after size is known could someone masure also Nothwave as reference

Post by **Felix** » Monday 24 November 2008, 23:45

Weight should be for size 26.5 if Schneewurm has stuck to the size the manufacturers choose to announce weight.

I still don't understand how the Track 700 can be rated as hard on slope? I had the Raichle AF600 which was the presessor (AF700-->Indy-->Track 1000) and that boot was way softer than the red Raichle 325 with black racing tongue (did you compare with green or black racing tongue?). Riding the 325 in freeride mode felt like the AF600 in closed to me.

However why have you left out the Northwaves? Not available to you?
Also the liner plays a big part in stiffness. Thermoflex stiffen up Raichle/Dee Luxe boots from what I've experienced compared to the standard liner on Dee Luxe (can't say anything compared to the leather Raichle liner, I think that one was stiffer than the Thermoflex)

For switching from Raichle/Dee Luxe *25 to Track 700/1000 or Suzuka/Indy you have to downsize. If you have a wide forefoot the *25 will feel much smaller. I had to cut away the whole liner at the sides to fit in with 99mm forefot (size 26.5).

If you have a low arch: Go for *25 --> the Suzuka/Indy/700 will not fit you at all, else you will be able to lift up your heel no matter how strong you close the second buckle!!!

I would say sideflex of boot doesn't matter much. If you want sideflex don't get Intec bindings. If you're on a skinny board, get Intec or other step-in systems and get rid of most sideflex but you then have to live with Intec making you feel vibrations much more.

Post by **Hans** » Tuesday 25 November 2008, 0:08

Felix wrote:I would say sideflex of boot doesn't matter much. If you want sideflex don't get Intec bindings. If you're on a skinny board, get Intec or other step-in systems and get rid of most sideflex but you then have to live with Intec making you feel vibrations much more.

I question this. Because the tracks 700 are made of such soft material I have noticed a lot of sideflex in those boots. And I ride intec. I didn't have felt that sideflex in their predecessors (Raichle AF700/Indy) which I both have ridden for years. The materials of those boots were more stiffer than the Track 700 nowadays. The colder the stiffer those boots went. These aren't. The track 700 is even much more flexible as my former Raichle AF600/Deeluxe Suzuka. Just my 2 cents and experience with those boots.

Post by **Felix** » Tuesday 25 November 2008, 0:19

okay, I didn't know that. I could never detect any noticeable sideflex in any snowboard boot at all (using them on traditional bindings). The different sideflex I could achieve using different front levers was much greater (Burton Race frontlever with boot filed down to fit it exactly gives about 7-8° less sideflex to each side compared to a very old F2 lever). With intec differences in sideflex probabely do become noticeable.

Are you using Intecs, Hans?
And your posts makes me feel that Schneewurm had different Track 700 from the rest of us even more. Because I would compare the old Raichle 325 with silver standard tongue and closed 5 position lean in forward lean to old AF700. With springs the the Raichle 325 was off course softer compared to AF700, even when using the black and strongest racing tongues. I know some racers put the 5 position lean on the AF700 back then to make it harder...

You too have tried the Track 1000, haven't you? What about the stiffness of the stiffest Track 1000 selection (there are different stiffnesses to chose from for upper and lower)?

Post by **Hans** » Tuesday 25 November 2008, 0:34

I only had them in my hands on the ispo in 2007, never had them on my feet in real snow. By the time I wanted to order them they were sold out. The Track 1000 is nothing more than a customized track 700 with different sorts of stiffer and less stiff parts in the whole boot. I just upgraded my Track 700 with some Strolz full leather foamliners and now my boots are just the boots I always wanted. Responsive, more control, a way much better fit than I ever had, some sideflex and flexible enough for Ecing even with intecs. Just the boots I can wear my whole snowboardlife.

Post by **Arnaud** » Tuesday 25 November 2008, 14:14

Some precisions about boots :
Making tuning on Head for ACSS, I modified last year about 10 pairs of Stratos. Very funny, but from one pair to another, flex is very different. It seems that tolerances in molding and assembly creates a large dispersion.
From one size to another, some plastic parts are common, some specific, so wearing between component is never the same !!

Post by **Transistor Rhythm** » Tuesday 25 November 2008, 17:05

Great write up!

I've lusted after the five buckle RC-10's for a while but it seems my Blax's seem pretty good for what I want to do (ride a wider board) as they are the predecessors of the Stratos Pro's. So I better keep the Blax's, buy a better board instead and go for the Stratos Pro's with BTS the season after this if I still feel I need to.

What about the Japanese boots? Are they available in Europe at all, and in sizes above 44? Anyone ridden them?

Post by **Arnaud** » Tuesday 25 November 2008, 17:26

Transistor Rhythm

Note that all tuning described for Stratos apply also on Blax (cuting, ACSS). So no need to change.