Board length for lightweight rider (and technique question)

[pokkis]

If Zinal is too far away, please check if Oppdal is closer
More info at flegmatic-carving.com

[hera]

Christian,

Unfortunately we have just few good slopes were you can carve [moguls and crowded in rest] despite the fact that the Carpatians are beautifull and have a lot a great places. I prefer to spend the same money on a valley with hundreads of km of slopes instead of just a few km and crowded.

Hera

[RicHard]

I can't understand what is wrong in this position...

For me it's good and the red line doesn't indicate anything significant he should do...
Can anybody explain it better? Or do everybody agree about the fact that this position is good?

[Felix]

This picture is better than the rest.
However: Rotation in the upper body, and counterrotation in the legs.
Therfoe: Central weight of body is not in the middle of the bindings, and the weight would be over the front leg. However front leg not strong enough - therefore upper body bent backwards. to put the weight back on the anterior leg.

Result: Board slipping away, even if it is better than most other pictures from the video.
You need to see the picture from facing from the front and not sideways to understand what I mean. I'm pretty sure the problem described above exists, even though it's really hard to see in that shot.

Therfore simply saying this is counterrotation and bad technique is wrong, As in the upper body the rotation is relatively neutral and correct, but the hips are not in a good position. Counterrotation is something different.

Maybe if I find time this weekend I will setup a foto collection showing proper neutral position, real counterrotation as you can ride it without problems and conceived counterrotation which is really bad. Because many people just don't understand what counterrotation really is, and depict many mistakes saying it's counter though it neither or.

[skywalker]

Therfore simply saying this is counterrotation and bad technique is wrong,

...

Because many people just don't understand what counterrotation really is, and depict many mistakes saying it's counter though it neither or.

Please, Felix explain to us, what counterrotation really is. I'm pretty sure, no one here knows anything about it.

skywalker

[RicHard]

However: Rotation in the upper body, and counterrotation in the legs.

I don't think so. The upper body seems to face the toes... so... no rotation (balanced position).

Therfoe: Central weight of body is not in the middle of the bindings, and the weight would be over the front leg. However front leg not strong enough - therefore upper body bent backwards. to put the weight back on the anterior leg.

I disagree on point #1, so I don't share the second consideration...

You need to see the picture from facing from the front and not sideways to understand what I mean. I'm pretty sure the problem described above exists, even though it's really hard to see in that shot.

Anyway, from just this single shot, nothing of what you notice is noticeable.


Just to say that the red line in the picture doesn't indicate anything that should be taken into considerations.
I was just discussing that. In that shot, the position is not so bad.

[RicHard]

Therfore simply saying this is counterrotation and bad technique is wrong,
...
Because many people just don't understand what counterrotation really is, and depict many mistakes saying it's counter though it neither or.

Counter rotation means that your torso turn one side and your legs turn in the other.
If you put yourself on a "spinning chair" (the one you can find in a pub or in a bar), you try to move your torso one side and your leg will go on the other.
Phisically speaking, I think it's related to "movement quantity momentum".
Which news have you got about counter-rotation?

[frunobulax]

keep it short and simple...

Felix, I admire your staying power and your persistence. There are some points in what you say, but I don't think christian will be able to change the position of his upper body, hips and legs separately just by reading your instructions..
furthermore: don't you think there's a reason why all the others always have different opinions? could it be that we're talking about different things? could it be that everyone here has come a long way and knows what has helped him to carve? could it be that the theorems you learned in your racing lessons are simply not suitable for deep freecarving, but very suitable for going fast on racing courses?
Don't you think it's time to change your ways?
(edit: BTW, i just read your comment about racing technique on fb - that's the way it should be.. thanks!)

[fivat]

To make people more confused, I would add this:

"counter-rotation" is a movement, while "counter-rotated" is a position.


That's why analysing only pictures is no good. For example a racer and an extremecarver have the same position in the end of the backside turns (position of shoulders and legs, but I prefer watching the hips)... However the movements and techniques are different.

Patrice Fivat

[Alex]

Phisically speaking, I think it's related to "movement quantity momentum".
Which news have you got about counter-rotation?

yes the same...
for "counter-rotation" movement... i think is simply the action/reaction Newton's law,
so if the upper part of the body is rotated in a direction by a force generated by the lower part of the body...by a reaction the lower part with the board receive the same force but in a opposite direction...therefore the more instinctive way to do a turn!

[Franck Lehmans]

I can't understand what is wrong in this position...

For me it's good and the red line doesn't indicate anything significant he should do...
Can anybody explain it better? Or do everybody agree about the fact that this position is good?

Sorry... It's my fault. The red line is too straight. On this images, the rotation is prefect and the angulation is there too. For me, I had just the feeling (if you look at the video) that he gives always, in his backside, too much angle with his body. It meens (for me) that he should better use the energy of previous turn to decent a little bit more his body.

Some peaple had questions about counter rotation... Some explanation in images :

[Franck Lehmans]

If you look the images in the rignt order, you can see that the front shoulders is turning from right to left and the nose from the board turns from left to right. This is a counter rotation.

This is a real instinctive technique (quite all the beginners use it, and everybody use it to make an emergancy movement). To feel what is a conter-rotation, you can try that at home : put all your weight on your front foot. Then, turn simultaneously your other foot in a direction and your shoulders in the other. You're making counter-rotation...

More understandable ?

A rotation is when your shoulders turns from right to left (for example), and your board too ! In those two examples, Jacques and Patrice use a rotation with a blockade tu transfer the energy of the shoulders to the board...
Frontside : https://www.extremecarving.com/films/de ... _front.wmv
Backside : https://www.extremecarving.com/films/de ... e_back.wmv

[eaglefly]

You are referring to what we call "extension turns".

Interesting, is this technique of 'extensions turns' related to counter rotation or not?

[Franck Lehmans]

Interesting, is this technique of 'extensions turns' related to counter rotation or not?

Absolutly not ! Extensions like push-pull technique is just a way to remove pressure from the board on the snow. There are two ways of doing that : to push on the board ((rapid extension of the body) if you push fast enougth, you'll jump... the proff of removing pressure on the snow) or to pull it ((rapid flexion of the body) if you do that fast enough, your feet wont touch the ground for any hundredth of seconds, the proff of removing pressure on the snow too).

Remeber : rotation comes principaly from uper body (shoulders and hip) and extensions or flexion comes principaly from the leggs...

[fivat]

Some animated GIF tell more than long explanations. A few examples:

One counter-rotation > "Not-rotation" style > "Rotation" technique >

Advanced rotation carving technique with push-pull>

I hope this is helping a bit

Patrice Fivat