DUAL : Hard or soft boots ?

Support about extremecarving or freecarve/freeride Swoard boards, hardboots and bindings

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sml
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DUAL : Hard or soft boots ?

Post by sml » Monday 5 December 2011, 14:03

Hi all,

after more than 20 years of alpine boarding, the past 7 of which riding a 3D Extremecarver, I am about to go for a Dual, which would be my very first "freeriding" board.

First intention was to fit it with soft boots such as Salomon Malamute or alike, and Flow bindings.

Then I remembered I still had my old pair of Nordica SBH Hard, which are based (as most of the HB at that time) on ski trail shoes (eng?) such as Scarpa or Dynafit. Them shoes seem lighter, more flexible and comfy than my own Head Stratos.

So I was wondering whether anyone had tried such a combo on his(/her) Dual, and with what bindings.

Thx for your help, and opinions !
EC3D 175M/TD2 - Stratos Pro (ACSS) /==/ Dual 175/Diode - Malamute

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Re: DUAL : Hard or soft boots ?

Post by leeho730 » Wednesday 7 December 2011, 1:00

I've used dual 158 with both soft (k2 t1 flow) and hard (raichle ibex). Overall, I like it with hard setup more. Surely with soft setup dual carved well on soft snow but with hard setup (with softened hardboot with acss spring mod) dual was good on steep and bulletproof ice as well. I run 45/39 on free carve angle for carving and 18/-6 on free ride angle for freestyle, powder and mogul riding for hardboot setup. Since ibex is very flexible binding it works well in both angle.
Swoard 168M&S / Dual 158
TD3SW /F2 / Ibex
Stratos / RC10 / T700

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Re: DUAL : Hard or soft boots ?

Post by harald » Thursday 8 December 2011, 10:06

To pour some cold water in the blood. I have not used the Dual with soft boots. However, I have used it with my Northwaves Point 900 and F2 Race Titaniums as well as with Raichle 323 with soft spring modification and F2 Carve, in powder, on soft groomed slopes and on harder surface. Unfortunately, I do not like it all. It is possible to carve, but in my opinion the board is too wide for carving. The stiff boots make the board hook up, and create awkward riding positions to carve decently. In powder, it is also possible to run, but I think the stiff boots, even the softer ones, hinder the board to float properly.
Therefore, on groomed slopes I prefer my Swoard extremecarver. In powder, I would think that the Dual works best with soft boots. To sum up, you can run down the slopes with Dual and a hard boot set up, but it is no fun.
harald

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Re: DUAL : Hard or soft boots ?

Post by sml » Thursday 8 December 2011, 12:55

Thanks for your feedbacks.

Went to a snowwhop earlier today.
Tried a pair of Flow boots. Pretty confortable, and fairly stiff.

Regarding the bindings, he would not recommend Flow, which he considers too soft thereby lacking reactiveness, but rather Salomon Arcade, or its lighter version Caliber.

More shops to visit today. Time to make up my mind, resorts are opening this WE !
EC3D 175M/TD2 - Stratos Pro (ACSS) /==/ Dual 175/Diode - Malamute

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Re: DUAL : Hard or soft boots ?

Post by fivat » Thursday 15 December 2011, 14:42

@Harald:
We met a girl, Sandra, who is using the DUAL exclusively with hard boots . She loves the board.

See her feedback here: viewtopic.php?t=7434

So as often, what can work perfectly for someone may not work that good for another person. That's life and fortunately this brings diversity.

Patrice Fivat

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Re: DUAL : Hard or soft boots ?

Post by harald » Friday 16 December 2011, 11:41

Patrice, yes we are different. I bought the Dual, basically for use in powder. For carving on slopes, I just love the Extremecarver. My problem with carving with the Dual on groomed slopes is that I need lower angles than on the Extremarver to put it on edge. Therefore, I think the lateral stiffness of the hard boots limits the flexibility of my sideways movements. On the Extremecarver, we use more of the forward flex of the boots, so the lateral stiffness provide support, but is not hindering the movements. It is a bit similar to using wide freeride skis on hard slopes. It is possible to carve, but you need to put a lot of force to do so. Therefore it is less fun than carving with narrower skis. In the powder it is opposite.
The same with board, they work best in the conditions they are designed for. Unfortunately, I have not tried the Dual in powder with soft boots, but for me, I think that combination will be the best set up.
harald

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Re: DUAL : Hard or soft boots ?

Post by fivat » Saturday 17 December 2011, 9:20

I agree with your text about lateral stiffness, since it's what Jacques and I explain since 2002 (in particular in the threads about stiff boots on narrow boards). But personally I experienced that 45° on front foot was no problem for good laying down with the DUAL, as shown in this picture:
Dual_hard_boots_backside.jpg
Dual_hard_boots_backside.jpg (27.26 KiB) Viewed 11944 times
Like you I prefer the Extremecarver for the slopes. But for another reason: the radius of the DUAL is smaller (moreover the flex is softer for my weight), while I prefer large turns (I love to lay down for long). :D
Yes, the DUAL with soft boots in powder is the best combination for me too.

Patrice Fivat

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