Wide board tendancy?

[nils]

you're fired!

hehe
N.

[tommaso2k]

Nils,

can i have his job ?

[nils]

its a job that gets no payment but you have to pay to do it!

N.

[yomama]

There must be a few windsurfers among us and we can draw the same similarities here.

In the early 90s, windsurfing was booming and competitions were held in very windy places with heavy emphasis on speed. Windsurf boards became smaller in volumes and narrower to promote speed .

That trend almost killed the whole industry because the average windsurfer do not sail in super windy places and they were spending time waiting for that 20 knots day that happens to blow three times a year unless you are the lucky ones who live in windy area.

It was a "macho" thing to do, waiting/posing on the beach with that 50l board x 45cm width + 4.0m sail and be a wind snob "huh? 18 knots of wind? not good enough for me...."

The boards manufactuers realized they killed the market and are now introducing larger boards which are more user-friendly, more all-rounded, plane earlier in lighter winds, carried the windsurfer with ample of volumes etc....

I think Swoard is doing just that. It's a user friendly board, stable (you don't have to wave your arms around to keep your balance), flexy (less tiring at the long run) and carve like a.....Swoard

The EC team is on the right track. Please keep up your great vision and....THANKS !

Peter

[fivat]

There must be a few windsurfers among us and we can draw the same similarities here.

Your post is very interesting, yomama!

I hate all those guys of the marketing who take some decisions that make the things evolve sometimes in bad directions, who think they know the "trends" (or decide what the "trends" should be), who are not practicing the sport in question, or who don't care about anything except money...

Patrice Fivat

[ablazespy]

As former employee at NIKE Europe, I can state that of 10 productline managers just 2 were active sports people.
Changes were most of the time made just for looks, or to follow trends. Just one of them wanted to hear any critics about the products for improvement the rest did not want to listen. Just thinking about sales figures!

I even tried, if the could design a durable glove for EC, The answer if there are durable we will not sell them next year!!!!

Big companies break sports from the pure of heart and the sponsored cracks have to follow!

At the moment we see a dot of light in the alpine snowboarding part!

GR D

[harald]

I am a windsurfer too and can subscribe to what yomama says. The wide board are far more user friendly and have increased the interest for and recruitement to this sport. If there also is a tendency for wider, more user friendly carving boards, as is said, this should increase the interest and total market. As a marketer myself, it has been documented that more supppliers and a broader assortment usually is positive for developing the market. There are more than for pushing it. Unfortunately, both in windsufing and in snowboarding the manufacturers may not have been in touch with the users or focused on the wrong segments and thereby misinterpreted the trends and user demands. I will not blame the marketers per se, but agree that there are bad marketers not doing their jobs properly. The important thing is to stay in close touch with the market in order to understand the requirement and then be able to interprete this into high quality and user friendly products. So I hope this wider board tendency both will benefit Swoard and us that have discovered the enjoyment of carving in general and EC in special. The next thing we have to work for is to have access to slopes were we are not run down by others.

[skywalker]

Hey Harald,

I believe, that there is no reason to blame the marketers for anything. because it's our own fault. It was not only the manufactuers, who told us, that narrower boards were the trend, also most of the boarders I met out there! I guess, every single board-manufacturer, that had produced only wide alpine boards during the 90s, would be bancrupt today. Because nobody would have bought his boards. Narrower boards were much more cool, looked more important as they were longer, are easier to ride,...

So it's not our job to blame anybody for our own mistakes. Hope, the hardbooting world will learn and grow .

[tommaso2k]

Ton, Harald,

i would say the truth is somewhere in the middle of your statements. Its NOT only the industry which manufatures only narrower boards and NOT only the riders who purchased only narrower boards. As Harald said one huge problem is that they are not willing to listen to requirements from poeple who are really riding the boards. I admit that is is difficult for a markting developer to know the demands from the "normal" riders on the pists. They are listening to input from their PRO riders but the requirements of carving or extremecarving are different that the Race requirements. In race you wanna go down the pists as quickly as possible with quick edge changes. No one cares about smooth style (like J&P are riding) and the race intention is not to to carve fully linked turns. Normal riders are going in the shops and want to buy the same equipment as the PRO´s but forgetting that they are not practicing race style. On the EC page here you see every day that the community will grow and that J&P developed a platform to build relationships and share knowledge about EC style and carving in general. If we could make this trend visible to big companies i am sure they are trying to develop for the next season wider boards fullfililng our demands. But to be honest i am not interested in wider boards from F2, Burton, Nitro etc. because the standard factories have not the money to porduce a custom board like the Swoard whihc was totally designed for EC and high materials quality inside. I don´t think the manufactures form the big companies can produce such a quality board to a reasonable price. There are only a few companies which are able to produce high quality custom boards for our demands. We should focus on this companies to make our requirements visible to them and work together with them devloping new boards Lets see what we can influence and what will happen in the future.

Cheers

Tommaso

[SITO]

.Hi all people of this forum.

I don't think that there are one or other tendancy, simply there are differents products for different modalities into the same sport, then each person can choose his style and form to ride freestyle, carving, race.....
for different styles different designed, and different wides.

In winsurf it's the same, there aren't a tendancy to wide or narrow.
Here in Spain if you are sailing in Tarifa for example a wide board would be an suicide whith a force wind f8,f9. you need a very little board.
But if you are sailing in a lake with a force wind f3,f4 a wide board would be the correct election.
I would be very happy if I could sail all the days with my wave boards70l
but how I live far from tarifa usually I sail with my wide formula board156l.

Translate this for snow it's the same.

For EC a wide board is better(I'll try to buy SWORAD for the next season,I love this ride style)
but for other person who likes short turn, speed and slalom a narrow board would be his tendancy.


IT's clear that for the mayority of the people who is learning this sports , wind and snow, a wider board is better.

But when this people are confirmed, they will choose different boards for his own preferences to ride.

bye Sito
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Ride hard;100%fun

[harald]

Ok, i admit that interpreting the market is not that simple and also that it exists different segments with different requirements. However, as was the trend in windsurfing the equipment was developed in cooperation with the pros and their requirements. We others thought that was the best and bought that equipment only to find out that it was difficult to use for the average sailor. Moreover, the industry discovered when looking at the freeriders, most liked to run back and from, jump and jibe easily. Then boards were developed to that segment, which is the largest. Yes, there all sizes for all conditions but for every size the tendency is shorter and wider for a giving volume = more fun under the prevailing conditions.
Maybe I should not discuss snowboard developments since I have only been carving for a few years and only on carving board. Of course, there are boards for all purposes, and as Tom says, we often want to buy what the racers use, thinking that is best. Myself, I started to learn on a giant slalomboard, but the progress came when I went to freecarve slalomboard and then to Swoard.
Since I am into skiing too and race a little bit, I buy racing skis.Generally also racers want skis that are easy to handle, but most often they run at greater speeds and on icier slopes than the average skier, as well as the racers are stronger and better trained. However the lesson is that skis and boots that suit Herman Maier or Lasse Kjus may not always be the best even for an average hobby racer. Outside the icy slopes they don't feel good at all.
What is the bottom line? I think that every development that helps us progress in our sport, not making it unnecessary difficult is OK. So if we think that wider and stabler boards can do that, it's fine. In the end the market decides, but the market, which is the consumers, needs a variety so they can make their choices. But, unfortunately, I think that the carver and extremecarver segment still is pretty small, so we will see whether this tendency survives.

[Matt]

Hi Everybody!!

We speak about wide board tendency here... But let's remember, as J & P say, it's easy to make a wide board, but to make a GOOD wide board, is something very difficult!!

May be, or almost surely, there will be wider alpine board next year. But will they be at least close to the performances of the SWOARD???

This is not sure And I am sure there will be many people ready to compare...

[SITO]

Hi all.
I'm agree with you Harald.

In all the sports racers are who development all the materials witch are used in the competitions. and whitch are sold in the market.

The market is moved only for his economics benefits, and for the sales quantities only they promote the fashion riding styles in the moment(actually free-ride and freestyle principally)


But don't forget that people want to buy the material of the racers for the simply motive that said to his friends I have the board which is used by....
And the market sale and develop the material that people demanded.

And the material whicht use the professionals, is very difficult to squeeze for a person who rides only a few week-ends in the season


But as Matt said if centralite wide or narrow here in EC, It's clear, SWOARD is the tendancy.

Could we see other wide an good boards in the market how SWOARD?

Wide it's sure, but as good as swoard ......

J and P not only built, also ride his own prototipes and correct the mistakes of the board and this is very important.
We are a minority group and we aren't,speaking in economics terms,
interestanting for a big company,and for built an EC boards they must walk all the way that SWOARD have covered, this suppose money and work ,all for a minority group....?

the boards that we'll see for EC only will born product of the passion.

But don't forget that there are different board for different rides style and

Sito
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Ride hard;100%fun

[roger]

I just wanted to share why I spent a lot of money on a SWOARD. It's not because of any vague emotional term, such as 'soul' or 'passion' for the brand. The only reason is because its fun to make totally laid turns. And for that, I want the best possible tool. The SWOARD team I guess proved themselves and the product they sell as the best, by their videos, forum people and commitment to what they want to achieve.

I gladly spent almost 1000? (incl. 25% VAT) on the best possible tool, as long as I was certain the materials, production process and quality are the best possible, while maintaining a reasonable profit in the making. That is; a good product to a reasonable price. However not exactly cheap.

It may be so that the SWOARD snowboards will never sell in any larger quantities, but when it comes down to it - who cares? Someone made a striking analogy to an expensive car brand, often associated by its red color.

Oh, sorry for my rather lenghty blurb. And I hope to see some of you guys in the slopes this winter.