why wider boards if on a skwal u can do EC? => $$$?

[ssteff]

Please please explain to me why the wider swoard is so much better.
If u look on the site http://SkwalZone.org, u can see that euro-carves can be done on very, very small boards.
So explain to me why a swoard shoud be worth 800€?
I think this whole self-created myth is about money money money, and nothing else.
You really are a bunch of clever guys!
Success!
Greetz,
SSTEFF.

[pokkis]

I have not looked that site for awhile now, but last time i checked it i could not find any films with fully laid out linked turns but perhaps situation is now changed. It is totally different to make one turn than doing linked turns. Folks were laying down Vitellis with PJs several years ago

[pete]

hello,

indeed, carving on a skwal is a lot different.
And NO, skwallers cant lay their turns as low as snowboard-extremecarver can. It is simply not possible because of the position we have on a skwal.

However, the reason i switched to skwal is because, even though it is still hard to perform fully laid turns (certainly harder that on the swoard), the carving is a lot more "accessible" to anyone.
When i started skwalling, i had been alpine snowboarding for about 6years. In 2 days, i was able to carve better than on my snowboard!

The price is a totally different matter... and skwals get expensive too . Only two boards are stil being built: Volkl Monocarver (app. 450€) and the Lacroix X1 (app. 650€)...
Maybe you should think and study the subject a little more before starting a polemical subject....

i guess the final word is: skwal is just a different way of carving on a board... skwal is not a snowboard

PS: Yes, i usually try to promote skwal... and i am a skwalzone webteam member... but i still think things should be known as they are, there is no point trying to "fight" against one or another carving machine...
I appreciate the work J&P and nils do... almost as much as i love skwal

[audacium]

That is a "troll post" by ssteff that should be ignored in my opinion. Nothing substantial but provocation in it.

Greetings, Eduard.

[gdboytyler]

Please please explain to me why the wider swoard is so much better.
If u look on the site http://SkwalZone.org u can see that euro-carves can be done on very, very small boards.

I watched a couple of videos in the "new" section and I didn't see any skwallers doing a euro-carve. In the "pro section", I watched "FF_SKWAL, le 31/01/2003", where the rider tried a single laid-out euro-carve, but he didn't finish the turn. So which videos have the euro-carving skwallers?

Yes exremecarving.com makes some bold claims on equipment and technique, but they back everything up with video.

I can't afford a Swoard at the moment, but I have switched to the EC technique and it works.

[pete]

You get the point... we're not claiming anything else than that you can carve and get awesome sensations with a skwal...

I dont think i need to justify anything...

I dont know if ssteph is a "troll", however he obviously either dont know what an euro turn is, and he didnt get the point of skwalzone.org...

Good vibes, keep on carving!!

[ssteff]

hello,
what i wanted to say is: i don't see a reason why a swoard is better than any other board, because it's wider, that's all.
i don't even know if i carve EC-style or American-style, or something between, neither do i care.
I also don't believe that TD2's or CATEKS are stronger because they are made out of steel, and LOOK stronger.
i do think that TD's and Cateks and the swoard are a kind of new way to collect $ and €'s.
I have TD2's at home, they cost a lot of €'s, and i don't trust them, even more: i don't agree with the mechanically principle of pulling with a large lever on a small baseplate.
At the moment i ride phiokka and F2 titans, and own a hot 178 and hot 160, i also have a mboo 171 race, i go carving about 30 days a year, and these boards never let me down...
they cost me about 300€ each; so are they bad boards because they are cheaper than a swoard? NO, THEY ARE NOT.
I also made several boards myself, using a press, and trying to vacuum bagging. i made the woodcore myself. I used carbon, triax-fiber 48edges, and the whole range of tech-talk that just meant nothing.
Did i made a good board? Well... if i could do a lot more research, i maybe could make something like coiler or donek or the swoard team does. But a coiler costs 45O$, a donek 550$, (350€ and 450€) and a swoard costs the double? Don't come with your matrix! please!!!!
Succes,
Ssteff.

[audacium]

We already had this kind of "zero-intelligence" claims about "Swoard is not worth its money" by someone called fab.board or whatever.
This post obviously is only intended for provocation or insulting J&P.

So, please don't feed the trolls he's growing already...soon he will explode

[ssteff]

hello,
i don't think i insulted someone like you just did.
don't you get it? maybe to difficult to follow.
is this a "zero-tollerance" zone or is it just you?
i'm sure that the makers of the swoard can defend themselfes without you.
PS. from 23/02 i'm in Going, Austria, about 100 km for Munchen.
Come carve there, and tell me if i EC or not.
greetz

[audacium]

Telling someone who quite obviously shows a lot of passion in creating this website, explaining things to people, sharing their insights, and offering a board that they originally built just for themselves, that they just want to rip off the buyers of the Swoard --> that is insulting them.
YOU don't get it.
I did not say you don't do EC. Nobody says you can do EC only with a Swoard (also J&P do not claim this). But the Swoard is specifically designed for EC, it works extremely well at this, it is extremely high quality, and it is a new concept that you simply do not get from other manufacturers. With a Swoard it is much easier to do EC than with other boards. And I have extremely rarely seen people doing really the same EC as J&P. They think it is the same but it is not. You are very welcome to put up some videos with you doing EC on another board, as we invited several other people already. Then we will see and if it looks like J&P we will believe your claims. Before...? Again, just plain provocation. (Strangely enough, no one of those claiming "I can do EC with my board also and it only costs 150 Euros" ever came up with a Video...you would be the first if I remember right.)

And even if the pure manufacturing costs are not close to 800 Euros, maybe you already thought of the countless hours and weeks of upfront work? The risk involved in building the boards, have an inventory, using expensive machines etc. etc. etc.? Thought about that already?

Pharmacompanies spent billions on research to develop new medication. Later they charge high prices for the medication even if the production costs are not very high. Now guess what, if someone like you came up telling them they charge way too much they would tell you that obviously you did not really thought a lot about this subject, that you just want to provocate them and that this is a zero-intelligence discussion.
There are countless other examples, cars, computer programs, books, CDs etc.

And a final thing: if there is demand for things you can usually suppose people want it. Especially if it is expensive. So if everybody thought the Swoard is too expensive and one can get the same performance from other boards, then nobody would buy it, you get it?? In addition, I guarantee you that every disappointed buyer, including me, would have made a very vocal statement on this board about the overpriced Swoard and telling people not to buy it.

So you are basically telling us we are ALL stupid, not only insulting J&P but also every Swoard buyer.

So who is insulting whom??? You see my point?

By the way, did you try a Swoard already? I do not think so! So, maybe you would entirely change your opinion and suddenly discover that it is worth spending so much money on a board and that J&P really make something unique. As long as you have not compared the Swoard with your board you simply cannot make any of your statements without being inconsistent.

So although I asked people not to feed your provocations I tried to answer your points because after all you maybe do no mean it.

It wasn't meant to say you are personally stupid, but the discussion you start here IS "zero-intelligence". For all the above reasons. And I thing you will agree to me if you are reasonable.

[ssteff]

no, i haven't tried the sword, but awhile ago, on bomberonline, there was the same discussion about their bindings going on.
they also claimed that if you tried their bindings you would feel the difference.
So i did buy a pair... was there a difference? Yes.
Were they better? NO!
It was just a marketing-hype, wanting the people to believe in TD2.
Of course if someone bought such expensive bindings it's difficult to admet yourself that you have become a victim of commerce.
I was tempted to buy a swoard, and wanted to know if there really was a point in making a board 3 cm wider, and what exactly were the physical changes in design, not the commercial voodoo-talk.
That's all.
Greetz,

[pokkis]

sstef, i'm willing to help you to get rid of TD2's you are not happy. I'm willing to swap them to new unused pair or F2 Intec Titanium Race bindings. Please drop me mail and we can agree about arrangements of wswap.
btw, what way you dont trust them, are you afraid that they will break or that they will pop open ?

[ssteff]

hello,
my trench-diggers a TD2's with 3° and 6° front-back, no intecs.
i don't like them because i believe that the way they transmit their force on the board isn't mechanically correct: the base-plate is too small, and the lever between boot and binding will generate tremendous forces on board and inserts.
i feel more comfortable on my f2's and old phiokka's, and don't see any need to design bindings completely in metal(alu).
C U
ssteff.

[vkrouverk]

So far all the people, who have said anything about Swoard, have said only good. I don't think that this happens only because they don't want to look like fools for buying such expensive yet crappy board.
For some reason Swoard affects much attention, I haven't heard, that someone claims, that e.g. virus boards or Pureboarding's #one (which are even more expensive) are way overpriced. But for Swoard there are claims, that it is overpriced, it could manufactured much cheaply, people post false claims in board reviews without actually riding them (as it happened in Bomber online) etc. Why?

i don't see a reason why a swoard is better than any other board, because it's wider, that's all.

Well, its width is only one thing, but there are other things, which are not so apparent, but affect riding. They are listed in equipment section, but here are some:
longitudinal stiffness: most carving boards are too stiff and lose edge on hard snow. Of course too soft board ain't good either, IMO Swoard has good compromize inbetween.
Torsional stiffness: this makes board stable and helps carving.
(same characteristicts are listed among important ones also for Pureboarding's #one board)
Of course this ATC Matrix seems to be 'voodoo-talk' or marketing hype ( new concept, unlike anything, very sophisticated device, unprecedented combinations, exclusive secret process to cite from its page ), but I really doubt, that someone bought board for this reason only, more deciding factor (at least for me) was third-party reviews, which were all positive. And board seems to fullfill this ATC Matrix promise completely.

I was tempted to buy a swoard, and wanted to know if there really was a point in making a board 3 cm wider, and what exactly were the physical changes in design, not the commercial voodoo-talk.

ssteff, test Swoard and see, whether it is so good or not. I'm sure that if you agree beforehand with Swoard team, then it will be possible.

[pokkis]

sstef, ok they are so not step ins, so i can swap them to unsed pair of standard F2 Titanium Race bindigs as well, just let me know.