Feedback on the Swoard DUAL

Support and threads about extremecarving or freecarve/freeride Swoard boards

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leeho730
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Post by leeho730 » Sunday 7 November 2010, 2:30

Rider specification:

170cm/66kg.

Swoard dual 158 setup:
alpine setup: 45/40, no cant/lift, 50cm;
freestyle setup: 15/-6, 54cm;
softboot freecarve setup: 39/30, 50cm

I used TD3SW with T700+BTS (yellow/yellow)
For softboot setup, I used Flow NXT-AT with K2 T1.


I agree with what yomama said in the previous post:

Great mix of all-mountain/freestyle board with EC in mind.

The board carves quite well on soft snow. Backside turn was quite competent on softboot setup, too, which was surprising considering the relatively short effective edge and freeride-oriented shape. It carves as well as ATV 161.

Singular sidecut radius means the turn is predictable but ATC matrix means that if you tighten the turn by using the speed, tilting the board high and pushing the board the board would still hold edge and carve... I could really tighten the turn, and hitting moderately narrow slopes while doing carving turn was no problem. Fun!

158 can also be used as a freestyle board, I used the dual on kickers and half pipe, not much problem... but the sidecut radius was a bit too much to do more than 360, IMO, unless you want to hit the large kickers on high speed... I'm too scared to try that.

I could do EC on duck stance (15/-6) on good snow. Yay!

The disadvantage was that it was less stable than alpine freecarve boards such as swoard or donek metal.... but that is expected. It was also not as damp on icy slopes... but then again that is also expected. Dual is designed as a freeride/freecarve on good snow, IMO.


If you ride alpine carving board primarily but want a board that you can throw at the terrain park and still carve relatively well and want to do EC on front side... and your resort has good snow... I recommend this board... this board will replace quite a few freeride/freestyle boards. It has certainly replaced my salomon, rome, neversummer and prior boards... This is one of the most versatile freeride-shaped boards I've ridden, especially since I am carve-oriented.

Another problelm, which is now solved, was that Dual had limited sizes: only 158, 168 and 175. But since 163 is available soon, I believe that for those who wanted a versatile board but was overwhelmed by the length, 163 would be an excellent choice.

Thanks Patrice and Jacque for making a great board! At this stage, this is the only board I'll use for freeride/freestyle purpose...! I wish this board would come sooner... Now what I'm going to do with my other freestyle/freeride boards :(
Swoard 168M&S / Dual 158
TD3SW / Ibex
Stratos / R123

moosehead
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Post by moosehead » Friday 17 December 2010, 21:27

Just ordered a DUAL 163 I can't wait to ride it.

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rcrobar
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DUAL - Review

Post by rcrobar » Monday 17 January 2011, 1:27

Impressions out of the Box
This past week my new 175 Swoard Dual arrived, beautiful top sheet and first class fit and finish. When flexing the board, by grabbing the nose of the board and pushing your hand on the middle of the board, the flex seemed pretty soft. I am guessing that many riders will use soft boots with this board, Jacques and Patrice included, but I have been really looking forward to seeing how the Dual will respond to plates and hard boots.

Set Up and Conditions
I mounted up my Dual with F2 RS-Carves, the very soft plastic bindings designed for lower stance angles (in the low 40 degree range was where I started) and my Northwave boots. It was a cold day, -20C with a wind chill making it colder. The snow was very nice, 10cm of fresh fluffy powder from a few days ago and hard packed lumpy bumpy stuff and a bit of corduroy here and there.

First Run - Too Much Fun
I took a cat track picked up a bit of speed and dropped into groomed run with a hard leaning larger radius frontside - backside turn combination. Literally after these first two turns of my first run on the DUAL I could instantly feel the Extremecarver inspired flex, feel and edge hold. It is just amazing how such a wide soft board had such fantastic edge hold. Did I mention that the edge hold was just excellent. Even when a bigger guy like myself decide to push hard into a turn, the support of the turn was great. At NO time did I ever think the board was too soft or too wide, it was just so easy and so damn much fun to ride!

Versatile Push-Pull Dream
I hoped this board would be fun and easy to ride, it exceeded my expectations! I am an average weekend warrior, tired legged, old school long time skateboarder (started in the late 70's) and snowboarder (started in the early 80's). I mention this only because I want to point out that I use, and have used for a long time, the rotation-push pull technique(s) regardless of the snow conditions or board I am riding. For me the feel of the flex and edge hold, when using the rotation-push pull technique(s), is just a dream!

Backside ECing on a Freeride Board
The most amazing thing to me is the DUAL's ability to do a full speed backside EC turn on a board that has a very traditional freeride shape and still have a softer flex that is also great in powder! This is the first freeride type shaped board that I have ever been able to do a full backside EC turn, ever! I have found that many freeride boards were able to to a frontside EC turn, but did not have the edge hold to do a backside. I have never understood why this was the case, seems like if the holds on one side it should hold on the other. It was so much fun to have great float when doing a few powder turns off piste, soul carve on piste, then pull off a full backside EC turn in front of the lodge. 8)

Dual - Great for Riders New to Hard Boots
I wrote the following thoughts some time ago when thinking about the DUAL, I believe them to be even more turn after buying and riding the board. For the soft boot rider, who is interested in hard boots but has never tried Alpine, the DUAL is a great option. This type of rider can buy a Dual, use soft boots everywhere and experiment with hard boots and freecarving without having to fully commit to an alpine board. This type of rider has probably seen the Swoard movies and may be interested in extremecarving. Because the DUAL is capable of doing fully laid out turns, the rider can practice doing one or two laid out turns on equipment that won’t let them down. Next the rider can get a better idea as to whether they like ECing enough to buy the Extremecarver.

Micro Hill to Big Mountain Alps
I have read countless posts from riders in areas where their local runs are narrow and moderately steep, I too have two very small and narrow resorts a few minutes from my home. In narrow type of terrain the 13m sidecut of the Extremecarver can be a bit much for a new to hardboots rider. The 10m sidecut of the Dual is a very nice fit for carving it up with room to spare in hard boots on a narrow run for the new or experienced rider. Within a few hour drive I have big mountain riding with a lot of powder, similar to the back country terrain where the Dual was developed. The back country freeride shot in the movie Carved shows how well the Dual works in big mountain of conditions.

Hard Vs Soft Boots
When seeing J&P riding their home terrain in the Swoard videos, the two board quiver that Jacques and Patrice have developed makes perfect sense. The Extremecarver+Hard Boots for the wide open steep groomed slopes and the Dual for Soft Boots and Powder. It would appear that the Dual is a soft boot designed board that happens to be very good with hard boots. In the riding days ahead I am going to mount my soft binding set up on the DUAL and give it a go. In powder I am a soft boot believer, in mixed conditions I am still having trouble deciding whether soft or hard boots is the what to go. I had so much fun riding my plates on the the DUAL, that it may be awhile before I get to around to mounting my soft boots for a demo.

Great job Swoard team, a high quality board that many will love to ride.
Cheers
Rob
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Hans
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Post by Hans » Monday 17 January 2011, 10:33

Thanks Rob, interesting to read you have so much fun on this board. But the rest of the story I don't believe: you aren't by far of an average rider. Your fluent smooth EC-style: I have never seen this on any slope, picture or vid the way you ride :wink:

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rcrobar
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Weekend Warrior

Post by rcrobar » Monday 17 January 2011, 22:37

Hi Hans

Nice to hear from you.

Wow, your words are too kind. I wish I was as good a rider as your kind words, but I fear that I am getting older, am not in good enough shape to ride all day long and I don't get out to the mountains enough because of my busy family life with kids; this is why I see myself as a typical weekend warrior :wink: I do have a lot of experience and I try to be as smooth as I can, but any real hard core ride would leave me in their dust. I like to try to surf the natural terrain of a mountain in a smooth and mellow way, the DUAL was so much fun when doing this.

Take Care
Rob

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Post by moosehead » Tuesday 18 January 2011, 3:25

I had a chance to ride the DUAL 163 today and what a fantastic board. I put my td3 bindings on with deeluxe 325 boots and it performed very good but the td3 bindings are to stiff for the DUAL I know this because when I was pushing the board to it's limits I folded the nose and flipped up on to my head during a toeside carve luckily I had a helmet on. I adjusted after the wipeout and just cruised the rest of the day and it was a blast. The board has great edge hold. Next time I will mount my Burton c60 bindings and driver x boots and will update on how that set up performs. Thanks SWOARD for building an amazing snowboard I love it. :D
Swoard DUAL 163, Burton C60 bindings, burton elevators, Burton Driver X boots. Prior ATV 161 Bomber td3 bindings, Deeluxe 325 boots, f2 carve rs bindings.

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Post by chupito » Tuesday 18 January 2011, 19:07

moosehead wrote:I had a chance to ride the DUAL 163 today and what a fantastic board. I put my td3 bindings on with deeluxe 325 boots and it performed very good but the td3 bindings are to stiff for the DUAL I know this because when I was pushing the board to it's limits I folded the nose and flipped up on to my head during a toeside carve luckily I had a helmet on. I adjusted after the wipeout and just cruised the rest of the day and it was a blast. The board has great edge hold. Next time I will mount my Burton c60 bindings and driver x boots and will update on how that set up performs. Thanks SWOARD for building an amazing snowboard I love it. :D
Great to read some review for the new Dual 163.
I'm not sure between a 163 or a 168.

You choose the 163 but what's your weight and size ?

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Post by moosehead » Sunday 23 January 2011, 1:54

I'm 5'7 178 lbs. I chose the 163 because I'm used to that length all my boards are from 156-163. The DUAL can do it all :D I love it. I ordered a set of f2 carve rs bindings to try on the dual I want more flex in my bindings the bomber bindings are to stiff for free carving imo. Get the dual you won't regret it. Cheers
Swoard DUAL 163, Burton C60 bindings, burton elevators, Burton Driver X boots. Prior ATV 161 Bomber td3 bindings, Deeluxe 325 boots, f2 carve rs bindings.

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Post by moosehead » Sunday 23 January 2011, 2:02

Hey Rob how do you like the f2 carve rs binders and what is your set up? It's good to see another Canuck on a dual. I'm planning a trip to big white in march if your there maybe you could show me all the good spots. Cheers.
Swoard DUAL 163, Burton C60 bindings, burton elevators, Burton Driver X boots. Prior ATV 161 Bomber td3 bindings, Deeluxe 325 boots, f2 carve rs bindings.

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F2 Carve RS Bindings

Post by rcrobar » Sunday 23 January 2011, 2:33

moosehead wrote:Hey Rob how do you like the f2 carve rs binders and what is your set up?
I am very happy with the F2 Carve RS bindings, for me personally they have the perfect feel laterally for the type of freeriding technique I like to use.

I use my Northwave Point 900 boots with the springs modified to my weight and feel for ECing and freeriding, this boots are extremely stiff laterally. The boots need to be stiff in the ankle or the spring system doesn't seem to work properly, at least not for me. I have found that when using softer boots, the boot buckles or deforms at the ankle and the spring system isn't actually able to do it's job. Is seems like the stiffer springs cause the boot to deform. I have used almost all of the Bomber, Catek and F2 bindings. I personally find them all too stiff for freeriding with plated bindings that are set to the 40 to 30 degree range, except for the Carve RS. I mentioned the stiff lateral Northwaves because this is a big part of why the these other bindings are too stiff for my personal taste. NOTE: I am not trying to annoy the many riders who love these stiffer bindings for freeriding, they just aren't for me:)

I have a two pairs of the F2 carves and have had no issues a all. I did what you are doing in this post, asking around before buying them, I spoke with a rider from I think Finland that was using the F2 carves on his Pogo Longboard. The rider who helped me was a hardcore snowboard store owner who had access to any bindings he wanted. He said he rode them hard and had zero issues with them, I was worried about breakage. I am a 6 foot 200 pound type guy, but I find I am not very hard on my gear. The rider from Finland said he had no problems and loved the lateral flex as well.
moosehead wrote:It's good to see another Canuck on a dual. I'm planning a trip to big white in march if your there maybe you could show me all the good spots.
Hey, I agree ... very cool to see another rider on the DUAL:) Thank you for the offer! I don't think I'll be able to make this year, but in the seasons to come I'd love to ride at Big White. One of my close friends just moved from Kelowna to Victoria, this is too bad because we had many good days riding together at Big White. I live further North, but I do know a few good spots!

Sorry for the slow reply, I have been out of town for a few days.
Hope this bit of info is helpful
Cheer
Rob

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Post by moosehead » Sunday 23 January 2011, 7:19

That's the news I wanted to hear about the f2 carve rs bindings :D Thanks
Swoard DUAL 163, Burton C60 bindings, burton elevators, Burton Driver X boots. Prior ATV 161 Bomber td3 bindings, Deeluxe 325 boots, f2 carve rs bindings.

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albertofornasier
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duial feedback - cortina 02.2011

Post by albertofornasier » Sunday 20 February 2011, 18:20

i resume the impressions of a snowboard teacher:
rider: Janosc C., 91kg, 190cm.
Dual 168 .

Conditions: 30 cm powder, 5 Towers, Cortina, not open wide area, wood.

Impressions: "completely satisfied, in the contest of cortina i found Dual a good board. It is slightly difficult to turn in the wooden area, and in this period there is not so much snow so the slopes a are a bit dumpy-gibbose. In the short space i decided to try 168.
To be perfect for my riding i need lot of of floating but maintaining a short lenght, thanks a lot to P&J. As soon as possible i will try DUAL on conventional slopes , i think i will learn something new!".

ciao
A.
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SWOARD Extremecarver 168H - <NW>, POGO stillet 184
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Cool

Post by nils » Sunday 20 February 2011, 22:06

I am the same size as you but with 81 kilos, and find the 168 too short for my tastes now that i have been riding 10 years with 175... But it is good too :)
Nils

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Re: Feedback on the Swoard DUAL

Post by lebowski » Sunday 28 August 2011, 22:29

Just back from a trip to NZ.....

I am very impressed with the DUAL I purchased from you (a 175). Not only holds an edge at speed for large carving turns but I was impressed with how quickly it transitioned from edge to edge considering its size and relative width.

Thanks - will recommend it to all

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Re: Feedback on the Swoard DUAL

Post by leeho730 » Monday 29 August 2011, 9:33

lebowski wrote:Just back from a trip to NZ.....

I am very impressed with the DUAL I purchased from you (a 175). Not only holds an edge at speed for large carving turns but I was impressed with how quickly it transitioned from edge to edge considering its size and relative width.

Thanks - will recommend it to all
Where did you board?

I recently came back from NZ, been riding dual 158 with ibex binding, 18/-6 degrees. Really fun, can go through moguls and narrow chutes no prob.
Swoard 168M&S / Dual 158
TD3SW / Ibex
Stratos / R123

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