New Swoard model: the DUAL > All details!

Support and threads about extremecarving or freecarve/freeride Swoard boards

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frunobulax
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Post by frunobulax » Tuesday 10 November 2009, 12:36

Looks very, very, very interesting. Congrats!
Reminds me of the time when snowboarding was an undivided sport.

A bit short and wide for my personal taste, but who knows.. Good looks too. I'm highly impressed. :clap2: :bravo:

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Post by rilliet » Tuesday 10 November 2009, 17:15

rcrobar wrote:Am I correct to assume that if you had to pick one Dual model it would be the 175cm board.
Ah, so difficult to choose! :doh:
Both are perfect for me. The 175 allows the less boot overhang (but not totaly for me in softboots), more stability and better floating in very light powder. But the 168 is more lively and has perfect floating when the powder is quite normal. It is also better for freestyle.
Finally, I think that the fact that I already have an Extremecarver would make me choose the 168. But if I was allowed to own one board only, I would choose the 175.

Jacques

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Binding Placement

Post by rcrobar » Wednesday 11 November 2009, 3:17

Hi Jacques, Patrice

Are the inserts on the Dual located in the center of the board, like the Extremecarver, or is there some setback?

I am wondering if the Dual binding placement for hard vs. soft bindings and powder vs. groomed snow is the same or whether you move the bindings back for the powder and centered for hardpack snow, etc.

Thanks
Rob

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Post by yomama » Wednesday 11 November 2009, 6:39

Rob,

You need to brush up on your French, you are missing half the fun!! =)

Here is a translation from the Jacques's view on the Dual on the French forum.

Some thoughts on the Dual.
The original thought was to connect the performances and riding characteristics of the ExtremeCarver to a freeride shape to obtain an ultra allround, high performances in all types all snow/slopes conditions. We took the construction concept from the Extremecarver and we tweaked the ATC to get the behavior we were hoping for.
As a result, on hard snow, we can obtain the same edge hold and accuracy of the Extremecarver with further progressive evolution and ease of use, but with less running length, the power is decreased a little. In backcountry, the board do as well as the best (except for the specialized Swallow Tails).
Its shape was engineered withr high symmetry to offer similar characteristics in the forward and fakie and this opens the door to freestyle.
It can be mounted with hard or soft boot (duck position included). Tto cover the maximize tuning options, there are 7 inserts (never seen on a board to Jacques’s knowledge)
With all those options, Jacques is looking forward to our feedback to characterize the board.

My guess is if you set your bindings smack in the middle like the Extremecarver, that would be your option for freecarving/Freestyling but not powder.

Now for the translation service, you own me a Molson Canadian on my next visit to BC. I am tired of the Budweiser! :lol:

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Thank You!!

Post by rcrobar » Wednesday 11 November 2009, 6:54

Hi Peter
yomama wrote:You need to brush up on your French, you are missing half the fun!! =)
Arrggg! I’m afraid I would need two more lifetimes to brush up on my French!!
yomama wrote:Here is a translation from the Jacques's view on the Dual on the French forum.
Thank you very much for taking the time to do this Peter, I really appreciate it!
yomama wrote:Now for the translation service, you own me a Molson Canadian on my next visit to BC. I'm tired of the Budweiser!
Yes, for sure, this would be my pleasure! I think I would also do my best to get you to try some Crown Royal with me!

Thanks again
Rob

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Post by harald » Wednesday 11 November 2009, 9:12

I hope the Swoard team will provide a board selection guide as for the Extremecarver.
I own both an Extremecarver 168M and H. In case I will buy a Dual it will be for the powder days, both when it is fresh and begins to be beaten up. I also want to use my hardboots. Should it then be a 175 which I think will float better or a 168? Height 178, weight 80 kg, boots NW 900, 26.5.
harald

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Post by rilliet » Wednesday 11 November 2009, 9:50

Thanks Peter for the translation! I still didn't find the time for it. :oops:
Juste a few precisions:
We took the construction concept from the Extremecarver and we tweaked the ATC to get the behavior we were hoping for.
In fact, it's a tuning between the ATC matrix, the flex pattern and the shape all together.
As a result, on hard snow, we can obtain the same edge hold and accuracy of the Extremecarver with further progressive evolution...
I'm not sure your translation means the same as in french. I wanted to say that the way how the DUAL catches its edge is very progressive. It means that from flat to nearly vertical, the edge hold force goes from 0 to maximum in a very progressive way. The consequence is that you will get a huge grip and precision but will never be "locked" on the board. This is how a board can be easy and performant at the same time.

Jacques

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Post by rilliet » Wednesday 11 November 2009, 9:55

rcrobar wrote:Are the inserts on the Dual located in the center of the board, like the Extremecarver, or is there some setback?
There is some setback for better behavior in powder, but the shape is designed in such a way that the behaviour on piste is nearly like a twin tip. If you center your position, you will be symetric toward the contact length but not toward the shape, torsion and flex.

Jacques

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Post by yomama » Wednesday 11 November 2009, 17:50

Hi Jacques,

Sorry if your message was "lost in translation".... :oops:

It is a shame that I did not get this because the "progressive" behavior of the ATC is what I really love about the Extremecarver. It allows me to change accurately the direction of a typical EC (laydown) turns *at will*. The steeper the slope, the more the ATC becomes evident.

I took that “progressive” characteristic for granted (I had my Swoard since 2004) until I tried a metal board. It is then that I felt completely “locked” (as you say) in the turn. I did not have the freedom to change the direction of my board at will and on the very steep slopes, it was close to scary. The edge hold of the metal is excellent and behavior on the blue slopes was butter smooth but the lack of progressive behavior makes me realize how much I love the Extremecarver.

So….Jacques, thanks for the reminder and thanks for the Extremecarver board. I cannot wait to ride the Dual!


:bravo: :chinese:

Peter

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Post by Schneewurm » Wednesday 11 November 2009, 21:59

Aha, board information is available now, thats great!
Six-park at Grimentz will be full occupied by Swoarders upcomming winter and freeride area down to Singline also.
there are 7 inserts (never seen on a board to Jacques’s knowledge)
Some boards have some realy fine woodwork as a topsheet. For to get such a board, I had to leave my computer, go downstairs to my bicycle, swing me on on the saddle, pedal some kilometers, leave the bicycle and enter into a store. So what I want to say: after about 10-12 minutes of travel, free of any pollution of CO², I hold some boards with 2 pairs of 7 rows of inserts in my hands. Check out simply Arbor snowboards!

I'm waiting now endless discusions about bindings and softboots, out of a huge range of available stuff! (and every Year changing stuff, not comparable to platebindings and hardboots)
Gliding on Snowboards,
like Pogo, Kessler, Virus, Hot, Nidecker and others,
from 151 up to 183 cm and 14 to 27.4 cm width,
covering any kind of shapes with
any kind of boots and bindings.

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Post by rilliet » Thursday 12 November 2009, 7:56

Schneewurm wrote:I hold some boards with 2 pairs of 7 rows of inserts in my hands. Check out simply Arbor snowboards!
Thanks for the info Schneewurm. :D
Now we know we are not alone with so many inserts under our feet. But this remain to be a quite a rare situation... Do you have any other example Dr. "snowboard encyclopaedia"? :wink:

Jacques

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Post by Schneewurm » Thursday 12 November 2009, 11:51

Hi Jacques, I'm not an encyclopaedia and don't force me to travel around with my velo, just for check which other brand comes with similar insert paterns. I take that time better for to go snowboarding. Burton has now a single rail solution since Years (EST). Other labels are comming since last century with two rails.

Exact the same patterns (of 7) could also be found e.g. on small manufacturers like Hyperlite snowboards (e.g. Focus Twin 158). As a big player Nitro snowboards put once 7 row'ers on mass to market
Check also all brands (many!) which are comming with 6 rows of 4x4 at 4 cm distance, which give the double range of binding postions then 7 rows of 4x4 at 2 cm distance.
But don't stop now production process for to enhance the Dual to 8 rows (people are waiting for the Dual!). The legendary K2 FatBob, first choice of many good skateboarders (*), was coming once with 8 rows (mix of 2 and 4 cm distance / stance, like on famous K2 Eldorado, up to 72 cm, even on FatBob 149 cm !!).

(* at Your city Lausanne You have a good chance to meet skateboarders - what a great source for to get informations as near as possible! Just ask a policeman for HS 36 Skate Park or go down to Ouchy for watching skateboarding events!

But far away from such discussions we are all waiting now for pictures like this below, recorded at Zinal ! (see also here the report on magazine 30°)
But instead of the red K2-logo on the base of a skier, we expect to see a snowboarder with a Swoard Dual - just doing all!
Attachments
Zinal-freeride.jpg
Zinal-freeride.jpg (25.96 KiB) Viewed 12557 times
Gliding on Snowboards,
like Pogo, Kessler, Virus, Hot, Nidecker and others,
from 151 up to 183 cm and 14 to 27.4 cm width,
covering any kind of shapes with
any kind of boots and bindings.

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DUAL setup query

Post by docrob » Tuesday 5 January 2010, 13:15

Fivat / Rilliet, can you clarify ?:
Fivat I think, or other blurb on this site, positioned the DUAL as giving freedom to cruise off the piste in powder, then back onto the piste for freecarves, but Yomamas translation notes suggest 2 different setups for powder/piste.
Is this latter point correct? If so, the Dual isn't for me.
If it's possible to set up for versatility, what sort of setup and board length would you suggest to learn to lay turns (not necessarily all the way) and also cruise off onto pow?
Rilliet suggested 18F, 0R and 550-570 (What is that last number?).
That's not much different on the front from what I do now. Fivat seems to be facing much more forward where he is shown riding the DUAL.

Then somewhere else he said 40F, 30R for learning the turns...I'm a bit confused!
I'm about 77 Kg out of the shower, and often ride with a small shallow backpack, plus use fairly stiff US 11 softboots (about Mondo 28.5 I guess),and Flow NXT or K2 Cinch CTX ...these latter can be set pretty firm. Would I likely break these bindings cranking deep turns on the DUAL?
I've been boarding about 30 hours now, and can link smooth regular freeride turns on red pistes, whatever the surface conditions. Normally I favour left foot forward duck at 15 degrees with both feet, since that's my natural outturn when stood up.
I'm getting frustrated by the limited G that I can get on the boards I use (Travis C2 BTX and Palmer Pulse), and want to get into freecarving and set some real nice edge. I don't want to get into hard boots really, also, being limited to well groomed pistes puts me off the extreme carver as do steepening baggage charges (I also take AT skis for randonne, so only have room for one board); although would the EC with hard boots make learning the turns easier than on the Dual?

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docrob

Post by yomama » Tuesday 5 January 2010, 17:48

hi docrob,

Regarding my statement on the Dual, I would like to clarify the followings:

1) I know how to EC but when it comes to powder, I am a 100% newbie. So my statement on settings for powder is a statement as a newbie
2) The statement I made was a "guess" so please take it with a big grain of salt
3) When I think powder, I have in mind waist high and in that case, I would move all my inserts all the way back

I bought the Dual but did not have the chance to try it yet....no snow here at Lake Tahoe. :(

As for using the Dual for powder and some EC, I am sure you are hitting the right target (the Dual) and the high number of inserts would allow you to find the right balance to go from powder to groom pistes (and if you find that balance, please do share it with us!).

Hope this helps clarifies any confusion.
:chinese:

Cheers.

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Post by docrob » Wednesday 6 January 2010, 13:07

Thanks Y !

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