New Swoard model: the DUAL > All details!

Support and threads about extremecarving or freecarve/freeride Swoard boards

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fivat
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New Swoard model: the DUAL > All details!

Post by fivat » Saturday 7 November 2009, 12:49

November is now! We are very excited to launch the DUAL.
This is the result of 3 years of development, 18 prototypes tested extensively in all conditions and terrains, compared, re tested...

  • :arrow: All details, specifications, images and pictures in action: HERE ! (PDF document, 4.83 MB)
    Below you can see a photography of the final graphics.

    :arrow: Online orders are already possible on the page here though it is normally dedicated to the Extremecarver.
    In the menu you can select the DUAL model.

    :arrow: Delivery: immediate after payment. Price : 620 Euros free of tax.
The Swoard team

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skywalker
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Re: New Swoard model: the DUAL > All details!

Post by skywalker » Saturday 7 November 2009, 13:07

leer
free extreme carving

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Hans
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Congrats

Post by Hans » Saturday 7 November 2009, 14:37

Looks are nice, congrats with your new product. And the looks are the most important :wink:

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EC-Frontside + EC-Backside = Freeride Shape?

Post by rcrobar » Saturday 7 November 2009, 15:35

Hello Swoard Team

I love this time of year, new snow and new equipment! Congratulations, the new board looks fantastic and I love the concept!

The thing that got me most excited, when I looked at the PDF brochure download, is the picture of Patrice doing an EC backside on a wide traditional freeride shaped looking board.

I have been able to do frontsides on many freeride shapes, but have had very little success doing a backside on a freeride shaped board. For me personally the nose of the board, on standard free ride board, would not have the edge hold to maintain a carve; it feels like the edge hold would twist and blow out of the snow.

Being able to do a frontside but not a backside on a freeride board has been a confusing thing for me. Why is a standard board able to hold an edge on the frontside, but not the backside? This doesn’t make sense to me, the construction and edge hold, you would think, would be the same and should work regardless of whether the rider is doing a frontside or backside turn. In my experience this has NOT been the case!


I would like to learn more about how the Dual works, so it is time for a few questions.

What boots, bindings and settings (stance angles and width, etc.) did you use when Freeriding on your DUAL.

What boots, bindings and settings (stance angles and width, etc.) did you use when Freecarving on your DUAL.

Thanks again to the Swoard team for sharing your knowledge!
Rob

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Post by Transistor Rhythm » Saturday 7 November 2009, 16:05

Congratulations! It looks pretty nice, we are looking forward to the videos!

How will this board be better for powder than regular 'carvable' softboot boards like the F2 Eliminator?

Is the 175 still ridable with hardboots? I think I could even go duck with such a wide board. Acceptance by parkrats, finally! :lol:

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Post by yomama » Saturday 7 November 2009, 17:22

I love the name DUAL = Do All.

Congrats to the team!!

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Post by starikashka » Saturday 7 November 2009, 19:38

I want to see Patrice rocking laydown truns in sofboots with this board :-) then i will make applause :-) The concept is good, very economic..but everytime somebody invented do-all things we see something different
i`m learning

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Post by rilliet » Sunday 8 November 2009, 18:05

rcrobar wrote:What boots, bindings and settings (stance angles and width, etc.) did you use when Freeriding on your DUAL.

What boots, bindings and settings (stance angles and width, etc.) did you use when Freecarving on your DUAL.
You can use both boots style for freecarving and for freestyling!

Personnaly, I prefer (and Patrice too) softboots on this board and I do everything so and when I want to hardboot I use my Extremecarver (because I have one). But some people use hardboots in any configurations.

My personal setup:
Boots: Burton Moto that are very comfortable.
Stance: 18°F / 0°R / 570 on the 168 and 550 on the 175 (both boards work perfect for me).
Transistor Rhythm wrote:Congratulations! It looks pretty nice, we are looking forward to the videos!
Thanks and be patient please, we have finished the last developement tests on may 27th 2009!
starikashka wrote:I want to see Patrice rocking laydown truns in sofboots with this board then i will make applause
Laying down turns in backside is nearly impossible with sofboots because of the body position caused by low feet angulation. If you want to ride EC with this board, use hardboots with something like 40°/30°. But the Extremecarver does it much better.
starikashka wrote:The concept is good, very economic..but everytime somebody invented do-all things we see something different
What we have noticed is that versatile boards that are supposed to do everything, mostly don't do everything or even nothing well. We wanted a board that can do (nearly) everything very well. You will be the judge! :wink:

Jacques

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Post by starikashka » Sunday 8 November 2009, 20:50

rilliet wrote:Laying down turns in backside is nearly impossible with sofboots because of the body position caused by low feet angulation. If you want to ride EC with this board, use hardboots with something like 40°/30°. But the Extremecarver does it much better.
I had no idea if it is possible at all :-) seems it is :-)
i`m learning

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Post by drzone » Sunday 8 November 2009, 22:53

Congrats on the new release. Nice graphics too.

What Flow bindings would you recommend for the Dual?
Carve Diem

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Board Size

Post by rcrobar » Monday 9 November 2009, 3:51

Hi Jacques

Am I correct to assume that if you had to pick one Dual model it would be the 175cm board.

I am guessing that on groomed snow, with a relatively large boot size (mondo 28 or 29) set to zero degrees, the wider board would help reduce boot out. I would also assume that the wider longer board is going to create much more float in the powder.

Am I correct with my assumptions?

Thanks
Rob

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Post by leeho730 » Monday 9 November 2009, 5:06

Congratulation!!!

Patrice, do you think the dual board would allow us to extremecarve with soft boots? :D
Swoard 168M&S / Dual 158
TD3SW / Ibex
Stratos / R123

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Re: New Swoard model: the DUAL > All details!

Post by fivat » Monday 9 November 2009, 12:28

rcrobar wrote:The thing that got me most excited, when I looked at the PDF brochure download, is the picture of Patrice doing an EC backside on a wide traditional freeride shaped looking board.
You are referring to the following picture?

Image

I tested the limits of the board and I was really amazed to lay down backside on a 25,8 cm wide board (board size is 168 here)!! This is VW (Very Wide ;-) ) and I would not recommend the DUAL to hardbooters who like the narrow boards of course.
This board has some unique performances which CAN'T be judged on the outline (which looks like the hundreds of boards outside there). A board is not only an outline! Far not, fortunately. I'm looking forward to getting the feebacks from riders who already have it as well as reading a magazine test soon.

But extremecarving is not the goal of this board. Its program is much larger. That's why we have chosen the word "freecarve" (besides "freeride"), which refers simply to carving on the edge (and not laying down). By the way I'm often surprised by the fact that some people are making confusion with the words "extremecarving" and "freecarving".
leeho730 wrote:Patrice, do you think the dual board would allow us to extremecarve with soft boots?
It's not a question of thinking. Let's Do it this winter! :D But as said by Jacques, we still prefer the Extremecarver for this. When I want to make 15 fully laid turns in a row, I love the dynamics of a real alpine setup.

To come back to your question regarding "extremecarving":
On the frontside it is no problem if you have no boot overhang. On the backside, as said by Jacques, it is "nearly" impossible if you have a duck stance or very low angles. With more angles and softboots which are stiff enough it will be achieved in my opinion. I'm not talking here about "normal" carving, but about fully backside laid turns which are linked.
drzone wrote:What Flow bindings would you recommend for the Dual?
The Flow are precisely compact bindings that can work for laid backside turns. Any model. On the heels the bindings should not touch the snow. The bad point of the Flow is that they are painful for many riders (including me).

But again I prefer my Extremecarver for extremecarving. With the Dual it's cool to Do All: you carve there, you jump in a couloir there, you ride the fresh power, and then you come back to the slope. :-) There are already hundreds of "all mountain" or "versatile" boards, but all the ones I have tested didn't give me all what I wanted, especially on the slopes.

Patrice Fivat

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Dual

Post by rcrobar » Monday 9 November 2009, 19:47

Hi Patrice
fivat wrote:You are referring to the following picture?
Yes
fivat wrote:By the way I'm often surprised by the fact that some people are making confusion with the words "extremecarving" and "freecarving".
No, I am not confused by the words ‘extremecarving’ and ‘freecarving.’ I think a lack of clear communication on my part and how I have, in my mind, defined what I meant when I used the word ‘Extremecarving’ has caused a bit of confusion.

When you (J&P) read the word extremecarving you think of Zinal, a full alpine set up, groomed snow, dropping into a run and doing 15 fully laid turns in a row on the newest Extrmecarver.

When I use the word extremecarving I think of BOTH doing 15 fully laid turns in a row on a full alpine set up AND I dream of doing one or maybe two fully laid turns on the Dual.

When I think of the Dual I do not think of trying to do 15 fully laid turns in a row at Zinal or anywhere. I completely understand that the Dual is too wide, the sidecut radius too small and the effective edge too short to be OPTIMAL for extremecarving. I completely understand that the Dual was not designed to do 15 laid carves in a row, but it is very cool that it is capable of doing this!

When I said I was excited to see a picture that indicated the Dual could perform a backside extremecarve with hardboots on, this is what I imagined:

Intermediate Rider

For the intermediate soft boot rider, who is interested in hard boots but has never tried Alpine, the Dual is a great option. This type of rider can buy a Dual, use soft boots everywhere and experiment with hard boots and freecarving without having to fully commit to an alpine board.

This type of rider has probably seen the Swoard movies and may be interested in extremecarving. Because the Dual is capable of doing fully laid out turns, the rider can practice doing one or two laid out turns on equipment that won’t let them down. Next the rider can get a better idea as to whether they like ECing enough to buy the Extremecarver.

Advanced Rider

I will assume the advanced rider has both a hard boot and soft boot set up. I will also assume that this rider is already able to extremecarve. This rider already knows that laying out a full backside EC is like a drug that you just can’t get enough of. This rider will be able to take the Dual free riding and freecarving and get a fix of the EC drug when they lay out one or two EC turns on their favorite roll on the piste that reminds them of a wave, on their favorite local run.

Expert Rider

To the expert rider, like Patrice, the new challenge becomes the following question: Is it possible to fully lay out 15 turns in a row with soft boots on the Dual. Only time will tell if this is possible.

The cool part about this is that one board can meet the needs of such a large variety of riders and their personal riding goals.

Cheers
Rob

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Post by rilliet » Tuesday 10 November 2009, 9:30

rcrobar wrote:I completely understand that the Dual is too wide, the sidecut radius too small and the effective edge too short to be OPTIMAL for extremecarving. I completely understand that the Dual was not designed to do 15 laid carves in a row, but it is very cool that it is capable of doing this!
You are absolutely right, rob!

Jacques

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