problems with extremecarving technique

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schmidtoo
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problems with extremecarving technique

Post by schmidtoo » Sunday 22 March 2009, 11:41

I have been carving (the upright,bomber style technique) for many years, always on Burton boards (factory and ultra prime).
Since I want to learn extremecarving I ordered a Swoard (175H) and I have been riding it for 3 days.
So far I could not accomplish any extremecarving turns - and I wanted to ask if anyone has suggestions / tricks on how to apply the extremcarving technique for someone who is doing well with traditional carving.
After initiating the next turn (rotation/flexing of the knees/switching the edge) I am pushing the board away. But this does not give me enough time (and stability) to lay down. What is the trick here ?

Any hint/suggestion/info is highly appreciated.
Thanks
Markus

Some background info:
binding angle: 51 degree front, 48 degree back
shoe size: 30.5
weight: 87kg
stance: 56cm
shoes: Raichle 324
binding: Burton step-in race

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Hans
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Had some problems too with it......

Post by Hans » Sunday 22 March 2009, 11:58

and the trick for me was that I had to go through my knees as far as I could get at the same time I reached for the snow far away from the board as I could and at the same time pushed my board away by stretching my legs/knees. I first tried this in soft snow on a blue/red moderate steep slope (so the when I crashed it would not be that hard/fast). That did the trick for me. After that you do this in backside, try it to do it on steeper slopes and try to get up by gaining enough speed.

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skywalker
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Post by skywalker » Sunday 22 March 2009, 12:54

leer
free extreme carving

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raphael
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Re: problems with extremecarving technique

Post by raphael » Sunday 22 March 2009, 19:45

schmidtoo wrote:After initiating the next turn (rotation/flexing of the knees/switching the edge) I am pushing the board away. But this does not give me enough time (and stability) to lay down. What is the trick here ?
I suspect your doing it wrong.

You shouldn't initiate your turn by flexing the knees. Your knees should be bent before the end of the previous turn. This might be a little tricky at first but it is essential. Actually the turn is initiated by a push on your knees. I think you are doing the contrary.

To help more I guess we'd need more background info. On what kind of slope did you try it ?
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ngsam
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Post by ngsam » Sunday 22 March 2009, 21:57

Hi Schmidtoo,

As you saw in the practice, the Swoard technic is a totally different comparing the bomber style "facing the nose postion" you learned many years ago. The main question is : did you learned the Facing the nose style in only 3 days ? I don't think so ....

It's the same for Swoard technic, you will need time and training because this is not just only different style but just kind of different world!!! Different reflex - different view - different feeling. To resume I think that the " facing the nose riding style " it's totally the opposite of Swoard technic.
Buying a Swoard will for sure facilitate you to apply the Swoard technic but it's not a miracle delivered by TNT making you adopting new reflex - new angles - new style in only 3 days !!!

There is no miracle if your goal is to adopt the Swoard riding style you will need to train again and again to forget your "facing the nose" reflex. There is no reason you to not succeeding into this new riding challenge. A lot of "facing the nose riders" adopted the Swoard technic with success.I think the majority of them doesn't regrets their choice.

By my opinion the first things to do is you to train alone and try to apply the Swoard technic on easy blue slope.
Applying the push pull technic you can see into the Opus 4 video is the first step to make you understand the Swoard technic spirit. Than I advise you to join the Swoard Meeting in Zinal.
This is by my opinion the best place where to learn the Swoard technic. Basically just because you will find into our meeting 98% of people riding with that technic and you can join the free lesson we are offering.

We also have a increasing number of German speaking people, you will for sure find nice german people ready to help you.
A lot of people proposed to us their service to be instructor but we took the choice to apply a strong selection and we have now 4 instructors proposing free lessons during 2 days. I can certify you that these people are 100% understanding the technic and can for sure give you some advise to improve your EC technic.

If you have some question about the Swoard meeting i will be more than happy to answer your questions in english or in german as you want.

Keep training,

Cheers,

Sam
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EXTREMECARVER GEN 1 161 S + 161M
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harald
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Post by harald » Monday 23 March 2009, 9:45

Study the text and videos, both basic turns and frontside and backside in the technique section https://www.extremecarving.com/tech/tech.html. As I understand, the technique is the combination of rotation and pull in the start of the turn (backside turn), then push when you have reached the snow with your hand. Stretch forwards/sideways during the turn. At the end of the turn you will raise by yourself as long as you have the correct balance between front and back leg. A lot of practice is necessary to develop the feeling for the correct timing of the movements. Good luck.
PS.
I saw your binding angles. Perhaps you should increase the angle of your front foot to 54 or 55 degrees. It may help to obtain a better position on the board.
harald

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Post by starikashka » Monday 23 March 2009, 11:41

ngsam wrote:Hi Schmidtoo,
As you saw in the practice, the Swoard technic is a totally different comparing the bomber style "facing the nose postion" you learned many years ago.
I do not agree. Facing the nose is just position, but steering principle is similar. Both techs are based on the shoulders rotation, but in different angle. EC - horisontal rotation, bomber - vertical. If we compare with what we believe good bomberstyle carving - Curt Debartolo aka CMC

Schmidtoo, you need to watch carefully videos from this site and follow most of the recommendation given by P&J - i think couple of month of intensive thoughtful training can make you good ECer :-) You will need a cameraman or camerawoman on every training session :-) If you have a good BS it should not be a problem for you to get EC right, but you have to adjust riding for style specifics.
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Post by Whitey » Monday 23 March 2009, 16:57

starikashka wrote: i think couple of month of intensive thoughtful training can make you good ECer
IMHO, we are talking about several years of learning curve. Maybe, just maybe, in some very rare cases, some months might be enough. But most often several years are needed.

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Re: problems with extremecarving technique

Post by fivat » Monday 23 March 2009, 18:39

starikashka wrote:
ngsam wrote:Hi Schmidtoo,
As you saw in the practice, the Swoard technic is a totally different comparing the bomber style "facing the nose postion" you learned many years ago.
I do not agree. Facing the nose is just position, but steering principle is similar. Both techs are based on the shoulders rotation, but in different angle. EC - horisontal rotation, bomber - vertical. If we compare with what we believe good bomberstyle carving - Curt Debartolo aka CMC
Starikaska, this has already been explained a lot of times over Internet (here, on Carver's Almanach and sometimes on Bomber). IT IS really different. You still don't get the idea despite all the videos, sorry. Don't you see the difference here?

A)
Image

B)
Image ImageImage

Animated GIFs - B): the Swiss rotation technique, one of the basics of the Swoard technique, is directly inspired from surfing and skateboarding. The rotation of the hips and shoulders you can see on a surfer permit a perfect leading of the surf, otherwise the surfer falls in the water. The rotation is ample and done in the sense of the turn. Remember that the surfs are wide, the feet angles low ;-) and that the feet are not bound to the board: a surfer can't cheat with bindings and a setup.

Animated GIF - A): it's what was called "French style" in West Europe in the nineties. One can call it "Bomber style" now (what is stupid because one can't generalize and many Americans have other techniques, including the Swoard one now), or "not-rotation technique" or "skwal technique", this has no importance. The important fact is that the rider is facing the nose (tip) of the board or the bottom of the slope (what is almost the same for many riders) all the time. I also can use this technique when I want: it works for racing on a narrow board for example or for emergency stops. On wide blue slopes, facing the nose and just balancing on the edges is a basic technique that I rarely use myself.
Schmidtoo wrote: After initiating the next turn (rotation/flexing of the knees/switching the edge) I am pushing the board away. But this does not give me enough time (and stability) to lay down. What is the trick here ?
One of our "secrets" we explain since day one here and at the Extremecarvng Sessions is this: close your turn enough before initiating the next turn. I mean that you have to go uphill as much as you can (without losing too much speed of course) before initiating the next turn. Then you will get more time to lay down. Try to lay down early, it's important. Of course combine this with our push-pull technique and keep an edge control (this is not falling!).
I recommend you to come riding with one of our excellent and selected instructors in the next Swoard Extremecarving Session. Watching videos is very useful too. But if some Swoard specialists could see you on the snow they could help you better and give you the precise tips you need.

Patrice Fivat

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starikashka
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Post by starikashka » Monday 23 March 2009, 21:18

Patrice :-) Can i have my own opinion? Is it allowed? There are lot of common things also. It is not necessary to face downhill all the time, and also it does not making impossible to make closed turns..

This A gif is not reflecting what we would call bomberstyle...Let`s be clear first what we are talking about before it goes too agressive :-) I can see the difference between A and B.

Here what i believe a bomberstyle - russian edition. Maybe in rest of the world it is different.


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Post by Arnaud » Monday 23 March 2009, 21:35

IMOH, these 3 videos show what we can call "Bomber style". Not the same then "facing the nose", but not EC technique ! It's the opposite : there is no rotation and the leg movement is not push-pull : the guys are sitting during the turn instead of pushing away the board ... note that thanks to the "sitting" movement they're able to touch the snow, but only at the end of the turn.

So, yes, "the Swoard technic is a totally different comparing the bomber style"
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Post by Whitey » Monday 23 March 2009, 21:37

Starikasha, let me tell you.... to be honest, in reality our planet is flat like a pancake. Please, don't answer me that I'm wrong. It is just my opinion. Can I have it?
:tongue:

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Post by starikashka » Monday 23 March 2009, 21:47

Whitey wrote:
starikashka wrote: i think couple of month of intensive thoughtful training can make you good ECer
IMHO, we are talking about several years of learning curve. Maybe, just maybe, in some very rare cases, some months might be enough. But most often several years are needed.
:-) Everybody know this very rare case :-) Several years needed to achieve HIGH level of ECing...for GOOD - less time needed. Definition is very important :-)

If one spend on the mountain 2 weeks of vacation during the year - this will take much longer than 4 times a week :-) But even 4 times a week not guarantee the success :-) you have to get advice from EC expert and have to understand the principles.

This guy spend couple of a days to learn EC without expert advice - he could do much better if someone look after him ( see 1:10-1:25 )
Whitey wrote:Starikasha, let me tell you.... to be honest, in reality our planet is flat like a pancake. Please, don't answer me that I'm wrong. It is just my opinion. Can I have it?
:tongue:
Yes :-) you can have such opinion and i will not tell you that you are wrong, just show you a satellite pictures and tell that we belive that this looks like a ball - you to decide, but if you provide satellite view from pancake edge - i will think to change my ming :-)
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Whitey
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Post by Whitey » Monday 23 March 2009, 22:51

Right, here you go:
Image

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Alex
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Post by Alex » Monday 23 March 2009, 22:56

starikashka wrote:This guy spend couple of a days to learn EC without expert advice - he could do much better if someone look after him ( see 1:10-1:25 )
This is Bomber Style that use cross-over for transition while "EC" is based on cross-under!
It's perfect if the goal is lay down but it's not right if the goal is lay down with ec style :wink:
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