narrow boards?

[WokkingMax]

... riding on Alpin snowboard with low angle need an adaptation time. But at the end it's 100% advantage and low angle helps ...

Sorry, I don't agree on that! Cause I think different people have different preferences, and, as for me, higher angles are the way to go and resulted in a great advantage of riding, again: for me... and maybe some others!

Cheers!

[fivat]

Serge Vitelli himself, the god of the frontside laid turn in the nineties , was riding 24cm wide boards with hard boots. He loved to retrieve on the snow the same feeling as the one given by the "bottom-turn" on a wave (he was also a famous surfer).

He did stop riding with alpine snowboards in 1994-1995 because he didn't like the trend to ultra narrow boards and stiff boots. For him it was "not esthetical" (his own words). The skier position with the body facing the board nose didn't interest him. He named these snowboards "skiboards" because the riders had no more a position across the board.

He said: "If a position makes you use the lateral stiffness of the boots, it's no more snowboarding. You have to control the turn with the toes and heels. But everyone does what he wants. I conceive alpine snowboarding with not too extreme stuff and positions that allow making frontside turns in a steep slope without looking like a "gay"."

This is Serge Vitelli's opinion given in a French magazine (SNOWSURF, number 13, November 1994) that I found deep in one of my cupboards yesterday! It's very interesting and even a premonition about the big decrease of alpine snowboarding in the end of the nineties! Our provocative Manifesto (written in 2002) goes surprisingly in the same sense. It's a pity that this incredible rider and many others did left alpine snowboarding because of the narrow boards trend. Swoard brand appeared too late!

When I will have time, I will probably traduce more parts of this interview in English...

Cause I think different people have different preferences, and, as for me, higher angles are the way to go and resulted in a great advantage of riding

Yes, people have different preferences and everyone here (I included) respect this. We are ONE family. The choice of:
- the board width
- the boots stiffness
- and above all the bindings angle (with and without canting)
lead inevitably to different styles and techniques (Swoard-EC style, slalom-race style, etc.).

Serge Vitelli had already understood that with:

- low bindings angle: the control of the turn is done with the toes and the heels. The boots should be not too stiff so that the rider can bend the ankles and knees.

- high bindings angle: the lateral stiffness of the boots is used. The boots are stiff. It's efficient in the slaloms. The rider is facing the board nose and the balance is different from the one at surfing.

That's very important. When I see people testing our wide boards with a setup for narrow boards, I realize that there are still many things to explain. For sure the test will be bad and the rider will complain on the board, instead of thinking about his setup and his technique. Changing the setup, especially taking softer boots, is sometimes not enough. The rider needs of course to change his technique and to adapt: the control of the board is different. But the pleasure is then so great... We could make a long list of the advantages.

Patrice Fivat

[starikashka]

Patrice, so there is lot of thigs to explain

Maybe i`m wrong but some of your recommendation do confuse me
- no boot overhang board edge
- no more than 55 degrees for front binding

I have deeluxe boots -1 size from my 300 mm feet i was forced to increase angles to avoid board loose edge on hardpacked slope at backside turns.

[ngsam]

That's exactly the reason why !!! I ask people with small feet to no cry about their condition.

Serge Vitelli understood all about carving 15 years ago. All the manufactuers followed the wrong way at that time by producing narrow boards. This fast killed alpin snowboard but a lot of people and I don't know why on the most part of forum I read around the world a lot a german speaking people are still saying that narrow boards are the future.

This is not a critics this is just that I don't understand... what is so amazing and interesting to ride with 65° 60° angles?

Broke you back ! broke your knee! just to face the slope with your shoulders ? THis make sense if you ride in competition but for fun carving ?

This is my opinion and this is my personal reflexion on this subject.

Anyway, Patrice is right and we are 1 big family and all the people are free to do what they want ! and to ride with 75° 70° angle

[Hans]

I have ridden a Virus Psycho (width 16.2cm) for six seasons and rode 73/70. Had a lot of fun with this board. Very fast. Never had an injury. No board for stoked Swoardriders

@NGsam
Did you ever rode a board with these angles no?
Demo a narrow board before you can say anything about narrow boards again without any prejudice. May be then you know how much fun it is riding a narrow board. Frank from Virus has succes with his 'narrow' boards, selling them all over the world (USA, Japan, and so on). A lot of people buy them and are infected, and not only germans. About 150 to 200 participants at the Carving Masters in May at Sölden with narrow boards. Demo one and then you can give your opinion based on your own experiences. Narrow boards kills alpine boarding: on what grounds do you have this opinion? None I think, after having read your post. There are more boards than Swoard alone where you can have fun with, also the narrow ones With the right technique you can ride every board with fun, even the narrow Virus ones

[pokkis]

About 150 to 200 participants at the Carving Masters in May at Sölden with narrow boards.

Really ? so many with narrow boards

btw how wide/narrow is board when it is "narrow"?

[Hans]

About 150 to 200 participants at the Carving Masters in May at Sölden with narrow boards.

Really ? so many with narrow boards

150 tickets, but there are more participants and they only own narrow Virus boards and I like to exaggerate like Ngsam with prejudice too

[WokkingMax]

Ok, one last comment on that

All the manufactuers followed the wrong way by making narrow boards.

That's what could me drive crazy! There is no "wrong" way! A different way, yes but no wrong!

This fast killed alpin snowboard but a lot of people and I don't know why the most part of them are german speaking people are still saying that narrow boards are the future.

Sorry, in my opinion this is totally not true! And I am not claiming that narrow boards are the future: First we already have them and then I just saying, that there are people, who prefer narrow board and who ride a whole lot better with them!

This is not a critics this is just that I don't understand... what is so amazing and interesting to ride with 65° 60° angles?

Broke you back ! broke your knee! just to face the slope with your shoulders ? THis make sense if you ride in competition but for fun carving ?

I feel much more comfy with higher angles. Riding with lower I get pain in my knees! And who says that my shoulders are facing the slope? And I'm not into competition! You're (and Patrice also) saying that someone with a narrow board is just riding SL- Racestyle??? But this is wrong!

Pokkis: no, it's not that there are only "narrow-boarders", Some will come with PB Two's and so on... Think the festival will be great!

[nils]

Narrow boards kills alpine boarding:

.. first of all, it has to be used in past tense, not present.

this is to be understood in this way: going narrow ( year 1994-2000) made the boards more extreme, less easy to ride, more technical, so people started looking for more easy riding and turned away from alpine... this is a common opinion from all the board manufacturers i've met so far, and Nerva, Vitelli and all the old schoolers that switched to soft boots say the same.

Today there is people on narrow alpine, others on wide boards, and all contribute to making alpine more and more popular...so its just a question of taste for the one that rides... i see no harm in saying narrow is better, or wide is better, as long as the writer says: for my opinion and does not generalize...

Nils

[Hans]

Nils don't know what you mean about no harm. Ngsam is implying that you are breaking your knees and legs when you ride narrow boards. I think it hurts as hell when you break a knee

[ngsam]

You all quoted my reflexion but not the last sentences as well why ?

Anyway, Patrice is right and we are 1 big family and all the people are free to do what they want ! and to ride with 75° 70° angle

It's really perfect if some of you feel good or better on your narrow boards but I always think that hight angles obligate you to face the nose and this is not a natural position.

And yes ! I already tried to ride with so high angles. I feel really unfconfortable and the style is by my opinion not so good as the egyptian one. At the time when I was riding with so high angles I had no other choices !!!! Because at that time it was not more possible to find normal wide snowboards on the market.

>Narrow boards fast killed alpin snowboards that's my truth and I am not alone to think that. At the good old time, where it was possible to find normal wide boards on the market there were many many Alpin riders on the slope.
More the boards were narrowed by manufacturers lower were the alpine riders on the slope..!!! Nils is absolutely right on that subject these boards are too selective.

And personally, I fast avoided to ride alpin snowboards because of that ! Just before finding the Swoard website I spent a lot of time on softboots snowboard website because for me it was not more possible to ride in these conditions.
I can also ride with high angles but this is not good for my knees an back.. i can feel the difference immediatly. The position to absorb choc is not natural.

I never said that it was not possible to ride with narrow board i never say that it was not funny... I just think that this is not the funniest and more comfortable way to ride for me.

I tried different technique and snowboard and I think that the Pat & Jack's technique ist the best and the most natural one.

I have nothing against Virus, against narrow boarders or German riders. In more I speak very well German and I read really often forum in that language.

It's just my reflexion on this subject.

And you Hans ? Can you give usyour feedback on wide snowboards ? Which board did you tried ? and what is your feeling ?
How many season did you tried wide boards ? Did you tried to change your style to adapt your style to the low angle ? Because facing the nose with low angle I agree this must be really painfull

[pokkis]

About 150 to 200 participants at the Carving Masters in May at Sölden with narrow boards.

Really ? so many with narrow boards

150 tickets, but there are more participants and they only own narrow Virus boards and I like to exaggerate like Ngsam with prejudice too

Only own narrow ones? you sure

[Hans]

Really ? so many with narrow boards

150 tickets, but there are more participants and they only own narrow Virus boards and I like to exaggerate like Ngsam with prejudice too

Only own narrow ones? you sure

Pokkis when you paticipate my statement is lost

[pokkis]

Hans, i will not participate and narrowness depends of :
viewtopic.php?t=4530

[Hans]

And you Hans ? Can you give usyour feedback on wide snowboards ? Which board did you tried ? and what is your feeling ?
How many season did you tried wide boards ? Did you tried to change your style to adapt your style to the low angle ? Because facing the nose with low angle I agree this must be really painfull

I have ridden every possible angles, even 90 degrees at my monoski 20 years ago . I also owned a first generation Swoard/Northwaves .900 till this season. I am happy with my metal 17 and 20 cm width boards I have know. I will never go back to glassboards again. Those metals are nicer and ride much smoother for my style than I ever had with my Swoard. The Swoard was fun for that time before the metals came in. And I have one wide Pogo for the real stuff. Don't know what you are talking about what must be painfull with high angles. Just adapt and ride. Soon I will be infected again