narrow boards?

Support about extremecarving or freecarve/freeride Swoard boards, hardboots and bindings

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fivat
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Post by fivat » Tuesday 15 April 2008, 13:30

Jonas Rejman also had very wise and realistic words! :D :clap3:
However he is not old. ;-)
viewtopic.php?p=43649#43649

Patrice Fivat

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Newton
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The spirit of Boafrding

Post by Newton » Wednesday 16 April 2008, 7:21

ngsam wrote:yes for sure and it make no sense to produce narrow boards.

Narrow boards fast killed alpin snowboards 1 time... not again.
Shapes dont kill nothing - dogmatism does .
On most FB Session we meet Guys riding a swoard or other wide bodies.
We always have lot fun together . SOME GUYS HERE ARE GOING DO DESTROY THE SPIRIT OF SNOWBOARDING .

We do not have the perfect slopes you ar used rip with your boards. I invite you to come to Germany and ride slopes like Wallberg , Braunegg and any slope in the Area around the ZUgspitze . Normaly we have very icy and rough conditions there and the Slopes are partly very narrow.I ride a board that fits the conditions I have in Germany I raeally like your style although I dont understand why make such noise about it. In any Snow Magazin in the nineties you could se Guys doing your socalled style as perfect as you do now. We just called it "Carving" thats all about it.

Again my invitation come to ride and have Fun with us under our COnditions (Hintertux in early summer pure Ice sometimes)

My english is not very good ,
Please dont misunderstand what I wrote

Come back to the Worlds Boarders community dont put a line between us please

Newton

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frunobulax
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Post by frunobulax » Wednesday 16 April 2008, 13:41

Oh carving community, blessed are thou... Considering how many different people make strong efforts to save the sinking ship of alpine boarding there should be no doubt that we're walking into a glorious future.. Depending on what party you choose you can have yourself rescued by either the People's Front of Judea (in favor of narrow boards) or the Judean People's Front (in favor of wide boards) - happy You, Mr. Alpine Boarder!
Oh Lord of the Hardbooting Universe, please prevent us from misled people who try to unite the forces of good! The more different parties there are, the better for the hardbooting world...



Ok, to add at least something useful:
I don't think there is a big difference between riding wide and narrow boards. The tools are - as Pogokoenig put it - more or less the same.

Wide boards make it easier to fully lay down the body throughout the turns - which is in my opinion not a result of lower binding angles or a different riding position but a result of simple physics every motorbike rider knows: with a broader tire the inclination of the bike will increase at the same speed in the same corner in order to keep the centripetal and gravitational forces balanced.
Watch MotoGP! The 125cc bikes are faster in the corners than the MotoGP bikes, but the inclination is less due to the narrow tires!

And yes, I do think with lower binding angles you have more possibilities to "steer" the board throughout the turns because you can use your ankles and knees to decrease or increase the inclination of the board (please forgive me if I mix up inclination and angulation). But I don't think these effects should be overstimated.

There are advantages in soft snow and when it comes to skidded or partly skidded turns.

With narrow boards it seems to be easier to keep the board carving through difficult sections, through moguls and tight situations. The board feels more lively, and edge transtions are faster. AND - I do think that with narrow boards it is easier for carving beginners to avoid skidding especially in backside turns.

So what? There is a board for everyone out there. It's a matter of taste and piste conditions, not of religion.

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amen

Post by nils » Wednesday 16 April 2008, 16:06

amen to the wise men...
its also a taste, people prefer red or blue, other people prefer green etc..
EC people think the style is nicer ' more fluid' and thus think very high angles are not nice to watch, and again, its what the rider feels that is most important. What is important is to each stand for what we think is good, without fighting each others since as said, its snowboarding and we are all looking in the same direction ( alpine). Lets hope we can hear the positions of each without having to suffer ' i am right you are wrong' kind in the future

Nils

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István
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Wide and narrow within 1 day!

Post by István » Wednesday 16 April 2008, 16:19

Guys, you give me a headache.... I usually ride a wide board in the morning hours and a narrow one in the afternoon. Most of the times this is what I find appropriate to adopt to the changing conditions of the slopes. Shall I beat myself up badly just because of this? :wall:

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Post by starikashka » Wednesday 16 April 2008, 16:55

Yes, Istvan :-) you are ambidexterous man!!! what a shame :-):-):-)

P.S.: pay attention to smiles!!
i`m learning

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Re: amen

Post by Freecarver » Wednesday 16 April 2008, 19:39

nils wrote:amen to the wise men...
its also a taste, people prefer red or blue, other people prefer green etc..
O.k then.
Let the people that contribute in this thread speak off their minds .
And let the readers to decide which it's wrong and right.

"LOCK THE THREAD" options doesn't help anyone or at least me.

Although opposite opinions than mine are highly appreciated straight to the subject of snowboarding and not personal and offensive .

No doubt they would make some of us better riders, see things different,learn more,make our own choices and not what they feed us or wash brain us.

Let any wise person speak may don't bother some but some of us may do want to try, learn, hear, see, something different.

In my country for 2500 years now they call it "DEMOCRACY"

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fivat
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Re: The spirit of Boarding

Post by fivat » Wednesday 16 April 2008, 19:42

To frunobulax: very good post! :bravo:

To nils and István: good post too. :-D

To Newton:
Why do you put oil on fire and want to create tensions? Why are you trying to place a line where there is only passion from each of us?

Who are you talking to in your post? This is an open Forum: we are not responsible of all what is written. All members (as well as the moderators) have the right to give their opinion, even if you don’t agree with them. For example guys like pokkis have the right to write that "wide rules". ;-) ngsam thinks, like Serge Vitelli, myself and many shop sellers, that the very specific narrow boards have killed alpine snowboarding. And then what? That's just an opinion. Nobody can know the real causes of the decrease in the nineties. If you have fun with your gear, that’s cool! You can write your opinions too and share your experiences.
Newon wrote:we meet Guys riding a swoard or other wide bodies. We always have lot fun together . SOME GUYS HERE ARE GOING DO DESTROY THE SPIRIT OF SNOWBOARDING .
Who? For sure you can't be talking about the Swoard team. It has contributed a lot, I hope, to make a big community and a nice spirit. In 2002 this Forum became a chance for Europe because there was almost nothing except BOL Forum in USA.

There is no dogmatism on this Forum. Have you read the Web site? Just a philosophy which is clearly given since 2002 and that is now shared by many people. The manifesto, like all manifestos, was provocative and meant to provide a shake-up. So take it as it was intended to be.
Apparently it has worked. Swoard has launched the trend for wide boards and softer alpine boots (spring modifications) for example.

At the five Extremecarving Sessions, we have always had excellent atmosphere. People come with all types of snowboards and there is no problem, we love to ride together. Everyone here who has participated can confirm this. Max, Tom ("skywalker"), Thomas ("tommaso2k") and many other German riders have come. The ones who have never come, like you, try to make a "war" here and create bad atmosphere. You won’t succeed. Please, don’t invent things that don’t exist in the community.
Note: Tom ("skywalker") is not a Swoard owner but he is a moderator of the German part of this Forum. Is this not cool? 8)
Newton wrote:I really like your style although I don't understand why make such noise about it.
The Web pages are static and not noisy. ;-) In the Forum, people discuss everything. And since there is a SUPPORT aspect, we reply to the questions from people interested in our original technique and boards. But I don't think that people are so noisy.
Newton wrote:In any Snow Magazine in the nineties you could see Guys doing your so called style as perfect as you do now.
:naughty: Again and again, do we need to re-explain history? Well, the goal of a Forum is also to answer the questions of the new comers.
I have many old magazines and old videos, which have influenced me 20 years ago. I have shown some of these pictures with a beamer during the last ECS. For example, the legends Serge Vitelli and Peter Bauer were making frontside turns in counter-rotation. The backside turns were very difficult at that time (the boards and the technique were not what they are now) and the turns were not linked. If they were linked (almost never seen in the videos), they were not fully laid (armpit to armpit). For the pictures, the riders did only one laid turn. Have you read the Web site? It's even written on the Homepage.
Newton wrote:We do not have the perfect slopes you are used rip with your boards.
For his freeride movies, Terje Hankonsen chooses mountains with perfect virgin powder. He won’t go on tracked mountains and bad snow, though it would be no problem for his riding. Simply the goal is to get good images for the movies. It’s the same for Jacques and me about extremecarving videos: for good images, most spectacular turns and snow sprays, it's better to shoot at the opening when the slopes are well groomed with good snow (not so often).

You got probably a wrong perception from the videos, whose goal is to make people dream and not to show narrow and crowded slopes. But we also like mugles and narrow slopes for the small turns...

When I went to Aspen, a guy riding with me told me something interesting. He was surprised to see that I was not laying down all the time, but also making small turns and playing with the terrain. Before meeting me he was imagining wrong things. This is a funny consequence of the videos.
Newton wrote:Again my invitation come to ride and have Fun with us under our COnditions (Hintertux in early summer pure Ice sometimes)
With pleasure! Jacques and I love the icy conditions too. We often go on the glaciers in summer. I remember a sequence shot on a black and icy slope in Grimentz (artificial snow). It was not easy to extremecarve there. But then, in the movie, the snow (all snows are white) seemed easy to ride! :-( It's because our technique focuses on fluidity and gesture purity (no gesticulation): from outside, it may give an impression of easiness.

Note that the best slopes I have ridden so far are in USA ("Aspen") and Italia ("La Thuile").

Patrice Fivat

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Newton
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Please check PN

Post by Newton » Wednesday 16 April 2008, 20:51

@fivat
I answered Ngsam (edit:and those who argue like him) not You or anyone else . He can defend himselfe dont you think so . To say that for example me was responsibel for what happened to Harbootriding is hard stuff.
To avoid any further misunderstanding I wrote you a PN
Please feel free to translate it to better english and post it.
If you doubt what I mean please send me a message and ask
Thanks

Andreas :wink:

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vkrouverk
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Re: Please check PN

Post by vkrouverk » Wednesday 16 April 2008, 22:13

Newton wrote:@fivat
I answered Ngsam (edit:and those who argue like him) not You or anyone else . He can defend himselfe dont you think so .
You must be new here, otherwise you would not use masculine personal pronouns to address Samantha and argue with her :wink:
Converting potential energy to kinetic..

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Newton
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Re: Please check PN

Post by Newton » Thursday 17 April 2008, 5:36

vkrouverk wrote:You must be new here, otherwise you would not use masculine personal pronouns to address Samantha and argue with her :wink:
Thanks for the hint :wink:

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Post by pokkis » Friday 18 April 2008, 20:40

frunobulax wrote:With narrow boards it seems to be easier to keep the board carving through difficult sections, through moguls and tight situations.
I think it oposite wise, for more even surface narrow boards are easy to ride, but when surface gets more bumpy and un-even, then wider boards start rule. Anyway i think that is proven by race boards, nowadays they are really designed to work on most terrible surface and wide of boards are just growing and getting softer. You will have much better balance and boards are more forgiving when they are wider and softer.
In good old days when they had real races, not these multiple dual races, then one could win with fast narrow board. So race rule changes saved alpine 8O
Just side note, i hate these dual races :wink:

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Post by frunobulax » Monday 21 April 2008, 8:59

@pokkis: I know that it is "common sense" that wide boards are better on a bumpy surface, and I agree with that up to a certain point. But note that I stated "it's easier to KEEP the board CARVING".
Soft, wide boards are easy to control on moguls because you have more alternatives. You can switch quickly between drifting and carving (and back), esp. when you use low binding angles.
But you also tend to lose grip on backside turns (esp. when you are not that experienced) and you feel kind of heavy-footed.
With narrow boards and high angles also medium skilled riders can keep the board carving on the edge because they can adapt the line very quickly in order to stay between the moguls and are more stable on backsides.
I have noticed that carving newbies make very fast progress on narrow boards, faster than on wide ones. That is also the one thing I criticize most about the "wide board hype".

and ps: me too... who doesnt't, after all?

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