Well, I have to admit that I am quite happy to see so much support for extremecarving on this site.
But, hey, yes snowboard shops aren't selling so much alpine boards and boots anymore, and yes, as it is stated in the philosophy sectionof this website, young people tend to turn to buy cheap freeride stuff. Still there is a basic rule in marketing that is : the cheaper your product, the more quantity you can expect to sell...
This SWOARD gear look really nice, but if it is expected to sell outside of those limited (happy) few who are already into alpine snowboard, it shouldn't be that expensive.
Well, I am not talking about giving them away and I understand it is a semi-industrial production without any large scale savings, but still the price point seems a little bit too high for it to become a success. That's the story about the chicken and the egg, one has to do the first move, who thinks young guys pushed into freeride by multi million advertisement will by miracle turn to extremecarve boards twice the price ???
I feel real bad to think that this discipline might not seduce newcomers just because of a financial barier.
Anyway, let me finish by a little bit of hope. I am from Grenoble in France and this city is quite at he heart of the snowboard world. 10 years ago you would only find alpine gear to sell here. Now there is just one shop left where there is a (small) alpine section. I happened to chat with the shop manager and he told me that he had so much demand that he will extend this alpine section next year !!!
Price versus quantity
Moderators: fivat, rilliet, nils
-
rilliet
- Swoard & EC founder
- Posts: 714
- Joined: Tuesday 26 March 2002, 10:39
- Location: Lausanne, Switzerland
- Contact:
Hi Chinanico,
You give me the opportunity to explain why a SWOARD is more expensive than any other standard board.
I agree with you in a marketing point of view, but the problem is other.
There is no marketing plan in this price. The only reason is the construction costs.
A SWOARD is not built like any other board. It’s the most complicated board that has ever been made. One year ago, we even didn’t imagine it would have been possible to produce our prototypes with an industrial tool.
When we decided to try to produce them, we were facing two challenges : the first one was just to build them. The second one, if we could make them, was to make them at an affordable price.
What makes a SWOARD so difficult to build is the ATC Matrix. This system, responsible for most of its unusual performance, is made with machined carbon fiber parts that have to be built before to make the board. Carbon Fiber is a very hard material. It’s much more difficult to machine it with precision than steel or aluminium for example.
The wood core must be machined too so that the ATC Matrix parts can be included.
Furthermore, the fact that we have nine models forces us to build nine specific ATC Matrix and cores !
Aware of the high price of the SWOARD construction process, we have limited any other cost to the minimum : simple decoration, no useless gadget.
The outside of a SWOARD just looks like any other board and doesn’t show its so complex inside.
Conclusion : be very happy you have the opportunity to get a SWOARD, it’s already a kind of miracle !
Jacques
You give me the opportunity to explain why a SWOARD is more expensive than any other standard board.
I agree with you in a marketing point of view, but the problem is other.
There is no marketing plan in this price. The only reason is the construction costs.
A SWOARD is not built like any other board. It’s the most complicated board that has ever been made. One year ago, we even didn’t imagine it would have been possible to produce our prototypes with an industrial tool.
When we decided to try to produce them, we were facing two challenges : the first one was just to build them. The second one, if we could make them, was to make them at an affordable price.
What makes a SWOARD so difficult to build is the ATC Matrix. This system, responsible for most of its unusual performance, is made with machined carbon fiber parts that have to be built before to make the board. Carbon Fiber is a very hard material. It’s much more difficult to machine it with precision than steel or aluminium for example.
The wood core must be machined too so that the ATC Matrix parts can be included.
Furthermore, the fact that we have nine models forces us to build nine specific ATC Matrix and cores !
Aware of the high price of the SWOARD construction process, we have limited any other cost to the minimum : simple decoration, no useless gadget.
The outside of a SWOARD just looks like any other board and doesn’t show its so complex inside.
Conclusion : be very happy you have the opportunity to get a SWOARD, it’s already a kind of miracle !
Jacques
Hello all,
here I only can agree to Jacques. The Swoard is by far the best board I have ever ridden. It is extremely stable, has incredible edge grip and feels always safe. So I really have the feeling to have paid the right price and not overpaid. I also have the feeling that all the features of the Swoard (ATC matrix, etc.) have real effects and are not pure marketing terms, that is, I can very well believe the production costs are really high. I have been riding a Virus until now which is also a very expensive board. While it was very good it did not give me the same sensations as the Swoard (to be fair: it was rather a freecarver with short radius) so sometimes I wondered whether it was really worth paying so much money, compared e.g. to my old F2. Still, Virus boards sell "in spite" of their high price. And when we talk about marketing so it should be known that a high price can also be used as a signal of high quality - which is true here.
To be frank: I think it is ok that one has to make some efforts and save money (at least I had to) before one can buy a Swoard. Nothing worse than the same development for EC as in freeriding, where 90% of the people do it because it is hip but not because they are really "in it". It would be sad to see hundreds of people descending the slope with a Swoard because J&P make so cool Videos but their own style is terribly bad and has nothing to do with EC or even good carving. This I am sure would unfortunately happen if the board would ever become available at a cheap price.
So I think the high price serves as a motivator and defendant against EC becoming a "hype" for everybody. Sure 800 Euros is a lot of money - I had to work in my previous holiday to afford it, but it's worth it!
I hope this does not sound too strict but at the moment I am very glad about having e.g. in this forum a bunch of really motivated people. With an EC board for - say 300 Euro or even less, this would surely change.
But maybe you think differently and I think "too highly" of our sport? Let us discuss this issue!
Carve low, Eduard.
here I only can agree to Jacques. The Swoard is by far the best board I have ever ridden. It is extremely stable, has incredible edge grip and feels always safe. So I really have the feeling to have paid the right price and not overpaid. I also have the feeling that all the features of the Swoard (ATC matrix, etc.) have real effects and are not pure marketing terms, that is, I can very well believe the production costs are really high. I have been riding a Virus until now which is also a very expensive board. While it was very good it did not give me the same sensations as the Swoard (to be fair: it was rather a freecarver with short radius) so sometimes I wondered whether it was really worth paying so much money, compared e.g. to my old F2. Still, Virus boards sell "in spite" of their high price. And when we talk about marketing so it should be known that a high price can also be used as a signal of high quality - which is true here.
To be frank: I think it is ok that one has to make some efforts and save money (at least I had to) before one can buy a Swoard. Nothing worse than the same development for EC as in freeriding, where 90% of the people do it because it is hip but not because they are really "in it". It would be sad to see hundreds of people descending the slope with a Swoard because J&P make so cool Videos but their own style is terribly bad and has nothing to do with EC or even good carving. This I am sure would unfortunately happen if the board would ever become available at a cheap price.
So I think the high price serves as a motivator and defendant against EC becoming a "hype" for everybody. Sure 800 Euros is a lot of money - I had to work in my previous holiday to afford it, but it's worth it!
I hope this does not sound too strict but at the moment I am very glad about having e.g. in this forum a bunch of really motivated people. With an EC board for - say 300 Euro or even less, this would surely change.
But maybe you think differently and I think "too highly" of our sport? Let us discuss this issue!
Carve low, Eduard.
I think that comparing here price of Sword to "standard" production boards is quite wrong. Sword is in same price category as all other custom boards so it is not so specially expencive. It is pretty much same as comparing normal combi cars to Ferraris, for most of normal users Sword would be too good board, as well as for most drivers Ferrari would be too much of car.
It is much wiser to some serie manufacture could build board for folks, partly with same characteristics and principles as Sword but without those extras to keep price level cheaper. Then when user feels that they have grown out of that board then they could start think of investing to Sword.
Anyway from my personal experience Sword is really not so easy board to jump on, specially if previous experience is from more narrower board. But after one gets that under control, it is one heck of board
It is much wiser to some serie manufacture could build board for folks, partly with same characteristics and principles as Sword but without those extras to keep price level cheaper. Then when user feels that they have grown out of that board then they could start think of investing to Sword.
Anyway from my personal experience Sword is really not so easy board to jump on, specially if previous experience is from more narrower board. But after one gets that under control, it is one heck of board
-
nils
- Swoard founder
- Posts: 3043
- Joined: Friday 22 March 2002, 19:22
- Location: Lyon, France - Swoard team
- Contact:
Actually its not a ferrari, its a subaru impreza WCR
- its the most efficient board available today on the groomed (not the fastest, not the stiffest, not made for winning gold at the olympics)
- its versatile, not like a freeride board, but considering its ridden mostly on groomed, it is efficient in moguls, in powder, and in tracked pow
- its an easy to ride board for non carvers because it turns without carving when needed with no special difficulties
We made the most efficient board possible, it might lack the finish of the ferrari or the rolls royce .. but what is better? a ferrari on mud track, or a subaru that can go from mud to snow to concrete etc....
A WCR car costs a lot, even more than a ferrari!! We are providing a board that is the cost of a semi-proto/custom board, with the performance and real features that are expected on the snow... Most manufacturers sell at very high prices boards that feature the same wood core, fiberglass and eventually carbon/kevlar than the average stock model... so am not totally sure why those boards sell !
Yes we hope to sell more boards, not because it will turn any of us rich, but because of 3 reasons:
-decreasing production prices
-increasing the number of"converted" to EC people
-sharing our passion even more
-getting girls to like us (nahh kidding
Nils
- its versatile, not like a freeride board, but considering its ridden mostly on groomed, it is efficient in moguls, in powder, and in tracked pow
- its an easy to ride board for non carvers because it turns without carving when needed with no special difficulties
We made the most efficient board possible, it might lack the finish of the ferrari or the rolls royce .. but what is better? a ferrari on mud track, or a subaru that can go from mud to snow to concrete etc....
A WCR car costs a lot, even more than a ferrari!! We are providing a board that is the cost of a semi-proto/custom board, with the performance and real features that are expected on the snow... Most manufacturers sell at very high prices boards that feature the same wood core, fiberglass and eventually carbon/kevlar than the average stock model... so am not totally sure why those boards sell !
Yes we hope to sell more boards, not because it will turn any of us rich, but because of 3 reasons:
-decreasing production prices
-increasing the number of"converted" to EC people
-sharing our passion even more
-getting girls to like us (nahh kidding
Nils