narrow boards?

[Freecarver]

Friends here state that never ride more than 18cm.
Now they state 22cm is their favorite.

As for the PROS we have enough of them.

Why bother?

[fivat]

Hans, please be nice with Samanta, as all men should be with women.

I'm happy that you finally found a gear for your way of riding. But please don't repeat every day how happy you are, on all Forum over the world. We got the message. Here there are many riders who LOVE their Swoard... the original board which still suffers no comparison on the field of extremecarving (a discipline developed/improved with the Swoard).

By the way, I'm really surprised that you are one of the only guys who has sold his Northwaves... The best boot ever made.

Serge Vitelli's interview was clear. And like him I still think that the narrow boards killed alpine snowboarding... However I respect people who like the "skiboards" as long as they are not bad against the wide board riders like me and as long as they don't pollute the Forum, making promotion for various brands and events.

Patrice Fivat

[Freecarver]

Hans, please be nice with Samanta, as all men should be with women.

But she can be as rude as she likes as a mod right?

By the way, I'm really surprised that you are one of the only guys who has sold his Northwaves... The best boot ever made.

Just look on classifieds. News running fast really fast. Are you interested?

[fivat]

Such bad vibes... Keep cool.

Something is going wrong on many Forum recently. Even Bordy is leaving BOL Forum... I begin to understand him.



Patrice Fivat

[Freecarver]

Such bad vibes... Keep cool.

Something is going wrong on many Forum recently. Even Bordy is leaving BOL Forum... I begin to understand him.

I'm such cool as it's gets.

Someones contribution in this board must be as respectful as someones meant to be.

There's riders in this forum that rode more than a Swoard and don't deserve to be flamed just expressing their opinions.

Who doesn't admired Max and Lothar ride their Cyborgs,even in the other side of the pond?
But hey,here they get criticized instead of contribution and knowledge riders from some arrogance calling them selfs riders.

Same to Bordy as you mentioned,although I don't think the majority of this forum know what are you talking about. Bordy..?? who's Bordy..??
Did Sam knows him? You've better introduce her.
Her contribution would be more than value to him about her style....of snowboarding.

Even you you're getting the same. flaming here and there. How do you like it?

Just leave us in peace and Sam in her own world.

Enough is enough

[ngsam]

Hans,

Ok intersting. I never tried a metal board so I cannot compare with a normal one. I would be happy to test it and than give my feedback. All the people are saying that's a big evolution... I hope I will have a chance to test a wide board with metal to see if the upgrade is as cool as all the people are telling.
I had also a big pleasure to ride with monoski 10 years ago, I saw 1 monoskiers last week-end !! I would like to try it again even I think the sensation will never be as cool as alpin snowboarding but different for sure.

Same question as Patrice: Did you sold your Northwave boots because there were uncomfortable for you or to buy more harder boots ? I read a lot of post on the German speaking forum where people who are riding face to the nose wanted really hard hardboots. It is what you also did ?


Freecarver :
Respectful ? So, if i good understand just by saying MY opinion that's a lack of respect? warffffff !
Flaming ? just to say that I have a different opinion or to say that I love my swoard and the Egyptian technice and developp my answer this is flaming people ? warfffff!

Personally, I think this is not a provocation to say on the SWOARD FORUM that afer testing both technic Egyptian - face to nose - wide and narrow boards. I definitively love my SWOARD and I definitively love the Egyptian style...
My goal is not to provocate people but just defend my opinion and say what I sincerly think and feel. That also the reason why I will NEVER say on the frozenbackside or BOL forum the why and the how of my personal choice. I am not a provocator and I don't find any interest to that.


So to go back on the main subject can some " Narrow board" riders here answer my questions and tell me what is by your opinion.

The advantage to ride with especially narrow boards ?
Are we all understand on the fact that narrow board induce high angles what also induce a face to nose position ? Am I wrong ?
What is the advantage of this face to nose position ?
This is just more compfortable for you ?


That's also my last comment and questions on this subject


bye

sam

[Hans]

Hans,
Ok intersting. I never tried a metal board so I cannot compare with a normal one. I would be happy to test it and than give my feedback. All the people are saying that's a big evolution... I hope I will have a chance to test a wide board with metal to see if the upgrade is as cool as all the people are telling.

I advise you not too, you will be infected and never go back to glassboards again. It will cost you. (why are people winning in the worldcups on metal boards and not with glassboards anymore: ask Bozzetto and our dutch worldchampion Nicolien Sauerbreij , even a flatlander can beat the alpiners).

I had also a big pleasure to ride with monoski 10 years ago, I saw 1 monoskiers last week-end !! I would like to try it again even I think the sensation will never be as cool as alpin snowboarding but different for sure.

That was then, I like snowboarding more now. I am even thinking to go skiing again!!

Same question as Patrice: Did you sold your Northwave boots because there were uncomfortable for you or to buy more harder boots ? I read a lot of post on the German speaking forum where people who are riding face to the nose wanted really hard hardboots. It is what you also did ?

I find my Track 700 even more flexible forward than my Northwaves (.900 with standard springs). I find the Tracks also lateral being improved due to the softer materials used. I just ride with intec now and comfortable TD2 bindings. I ride my boards neutral. Sometimes to the nose, sometimes to the tail. Coilers likes to be ridden a little more in the tail mostly. Just my experience with the Coilers (but I've heard it often).

Freecarver :
Respectful ? So, if i good understand just by saying MY opinion that's a lack of respect? warffffff !
Flaming ? just to say that I have a different opinion or to say that I love my swoard and the Egyptian technice and developp my answer this is flaming people ? warfffff!

Sam, you are often very direct in your opinions. So people like me and other people like Wokkingmax and Freecarver are reacting direct to you also then. Mostly it is: what you ask is what you get and mostly double.

[skywalker]

Sorry ngsam,

I would like to clrify some things, I've read from you several times:

Personally, I think this is not a provocation to say on the SWOARD FORUM that afer testing both technic Egyptian - face to nose - wide and narrow boards. I definitively love my SWOARD and I definitively love the Egyptian style...

IMHO Egyptian is a position, which is taken during riding, but not at all a riding technique or a style. If I get you right, you are writing about pre-rotational technique, which is part of EC-style...

I do not want to start a discussion, if "face the nose" and "neutral position" are styles or techniques here. But both of them for my understanding mainly consist of "not pre- or counterrotating".

But in any case, this has naothing to do with board width. There may be riding styles and techniques, that fit one board better or not so good. But almost every skilled rider I have been riding with in Europe in the last some years (no racing) used some kind of pre-rotation technique. No matter if it has been a skier, snowboarder, skwaler, no matter of board width. This is exactly, what Max is trying to explain.

Obviously extremely narrow boards hinder you from bending your knees. This leads to a technique using the "pop" of the boards to induce jump-turns. And of course riders position changes, "neutral" is more "shoulder square to board axis". I don't think, the difference s big enough to start struggling.

skywalker

[ngsam]

Hi Skywalker,

no reason to say sorry.

It's nice to have your point of view.

[fivat]

But in any case, this has nothing to do with board width. There may be riding styles and techniques, that fit one board better or not so good.

Interesting post, Tom (more interesting than the ones above ).

Our Swoard rider, Antoine in Zinal, is a talented racer. Though his Swoard is wide (23.1 cm for him), he is using a "shoulder square to board axis" position for racing. I often ride with him for the pleasure, but he keeps this position all the time. The interesting points are that:
- He can't "close" the turns like me: he can't follow my carves, he makes what I call "babana" turns like the ones in a slalom.
- He can't lay down fully like me, the armpit in the snow. He can touch the snow with the hip and the hand, but the armpit is far from the snow. With his technique, he can't benefit from the extremecarving performances of the Swoard, but only from the race performances (yes, the Swoard has race performances : Antoine wins races, with a hard flex).

Tom you are right on the fact that the board width doesn't require a particular technique. But of course a wide board require an adapted setup (lower bindings angle for example).

The "Egyptian" position (as Jacques and I named it originally) is not an artificial position to get a "surfer style" (as I showed it during my presentation at the ECS 08 ), but it's the position which results, at the end of the frontside turn, from the rotation of the shoulders and hips. Keeping the position helps a lot to close the turn more and adds pressure on the edge for extremecarving. Then it allows to start an ample move of the shoulders and hips when making the backside turn. This turn is then more closed too and one gets more pressure on the edge to lay down.

Patrice Fivat

[starikashka]

Patrice where you get a time for posting such a long answers this is a sign of approaching summer ?

[Pogokoenig]

Our Swoard rider, Antoine in Zinal, is a talented racer. Though his Swoard is wide (23.1 cm for him), he is using a "shoulder square to board axis" position for racing. I often ride with him for the pleasure, but he keeps this position all the time. The interesting points are that:
- He can't "close" the turns like me: he can't follow my carves, he makes what I call "babana" turns like the ones in a slalom.
- He can't lay down fully like me, the armpit in the snow. He can touch the snow with the hip and the hand, but the armpit is far from the snow. With his technique, he can't benefit from the extremecarving performances of the Swoard, but only from the race performances (yes, the Swoard has race performances : Antoine wins races, with a hard flex).

Tom you are right on the fact that the board width doesn't require a particular technique. But of course a wide board require an adapted setup (lower bindings angle for example).

The "Egyptian" position (as Jacques and I named it originally) is not an artificial position to get a "surfer style" (as I showed it during my presentation at the ECS 08 ), but it's the position which results, at the end of the frontside turn, from the rotation of the shoulders and hips. Keeping the position helps a lot to close the turn more and adds pressure on the edge for extremecarving. Then it allows to start an ample move of the shoulders and hips when making the backside turn. This turn is then more closed too and one gets more pressure on the edge to lay down.

That is part of rotation and nothing else. Closing a turn by strong rotation is not only to be done with wide boards. The amplitude in movement is just stronger. You can achieve the same tension to the boards edge on a narrow board. It is all the f...king same. Two feet fixed on a more or less wooden board. You don't have too many possibilties to move. You can rotate, you can bend the knees, you can angulate, you can pend between front- and rear leg and you can actively lean inside the turn. No matter which board you have. When a racer is not able to close the turns as ight as you do he just needs to do as tep beyond his race technique et voilà. If he is not able, maybe he is not good technician? As mentioned before, there are no real differences between the techniques except timing, amplitude and impulse of the movements. Even the technique on skis is not very different.

Just a question: How ridiculous is this discussion? Narrow boards killed alpine snowboarding? Ngsam, Do you have any relevant argumentation or do you have any clue on snowboarding at all. You have read in a german forum, that the guys ride face the nose? I have never read of someone riding but I have been together riding with a lot of people from all over Europe. Some EC guys, some pureboarders, some racers and so on. But I have seen one thing for sure. The real good riders are the ones with their own style.

Sometimes i question myself if the boards width relates to the riders mind in a reciproke way.

Two very famous riders state, that alpine since the mid 90s have become gay. May it be that Serge and Peter didn't want to bite into Jake Burtons hand. Because Jake's hand did feed them. Maybe Peter and Serge had become used to the $$$$ from their sponsors. I give a shit on this. We should ask, what has Burton done to snowboarding in general? Just have a look what happens on the ISPO every year. Snowboarding is getting a ridiculous kiddie sport.

For me personally, alpine has never been dead. How should it be when guys like the Pogokoenig are still on the slope.

What can we do? Go out, rip the snow and have fun. This is the bottomline and this is what counts!

[fivat]

You can rotate, you can bend the knees, you can angulate, you can pend between front- and rear leg and you can actively lean inside the turn. No matter which board you have.

You should re-read my posts in this thread (in particular: viewtopic.php?p=43474#43474). With a narrow board, the boots are stiffer and the ankles can't be bent. Simply look at the races in the Olympic Games: the riders look so stiff. As pointed by Serge Vitelli, with a lower bindings angle (and thus a wide board), you can control the turns more with the toes and heels... what requires a better ankle flexion. So the board matters!

The subject could be very interesting, and here I try to get a good discussion, talking about the advantages of each techniques, not telling what is the best or the worse. You make it a flame war while I'm just trying to get a good technical discussion!
If I ride with Antoine who has a different technique (and if Swoard is sponsoring him), it's because I like to compare and discuss. Antoine is damn good and I will never tell him how to ride. I don't try to convert people: everyone does what he wants. All styles are cool when people rip.

Show me your videos to illustrate your purpose, as I do for a long time. Thanks.

For me personally, alpine has never been dead.

The shops, the magazines and the big manufacturers say it's almost dead. Extremecarving.com has been created in particular to fight against the decrease.

What can we do?

Making this thread as negative as you do won’t help our sport: the new comers will think that the sport is really dead and that the last dinosaurs are whining and fighting stupidly.

More positive is trying to promote alpine snowboarding as Swoard does in the medias: TV shows (on different Europeans channels), articles in the magazines, and soon a HDV film for the theatre. On last Friday Jacques and I gave an interview on a Swiss radio (in French: viewtopic.php?t=4532). I'm sure that all this can contribute to make people come back to (or discover) alpine snowboarding (all techniques, all styles).

Patrice Fivat

[harald]

Hi everybody,
This seems to be a war between religions that destroyed Europe in the past history and now is destroying other countries and international relations too. Why so angry It is only a small sport and a hobby for most of us, so be positive.
It is similar to beein against Super G skis because I prefer to run slalom, or I do not like narrow race skis that works great on hard, icy conditions because I prefer fat skis and deep powder. So I think most of you are angry at each other for the wrong reasons. I stop here before making nasty comments.
Cool down, have fun, go the glaciers or to the places that still are open.

[pokkis]

Old men speak wise words