ON EDGE tv

[nils]

In fact, riding my race boards in the pipe, was a point of serious contention with Jimmy Smith (world champion) who believed these carving machines do not belong in the pipe. Try this some time and you will be a really free rider, the carve turn on the vert is like a big wave carve.

I have seen vid clips of Jacques in the pipe on the Extremecarver...its impressive ( of course he is not 18 years old anymore but i'm sure you could train shawn white a few days and he would rip in the pipe on a race board...landings are very tricky but would be interesting...
As for the debate between toe side / heel side vs frontside/backside...am not sure to understand what is it about > frontside = toe side backside = heel side....the frontside carve is very similar to the power frontside bottom turn in surfing...
As for counter rotations...even the best use it sometimes and its not a shame...Jean Nerva is using it in the vid called "le jouet" ( i'll try to upload it sometimes on youtube...) because he was carving not swiss school but french ski school ( torso facing the front of the board). The real pionneer in rotational technique turns is the swiss Antoine Massy that inspired Jacques for example ( he can be seen in some sequences of Canon Surf 1 wearing a wooly hat on yellow/blue suit > i'll upload the link to the vid in youtube asap ).
N.

[nils]

Pokkis: it is not counter rotational or rotational style > the guy does not move shoulders which is impossible in reality ! ( meaning this is pure theory)
Nils

[pokkis]

Nils, so you mean that French style is just fake
and Cerrn Ski School has fooled folks for years?

[Ballard]

Ok, I'll bite.

counter-rotation is a movement, not a position. The position you choose to stand on your board does not define if you cr or r.

Movement defines c/r or r.
If you rotate your shoulders/hips in the direction you are turning, this is rotation (most riders use a little rotation to get heelside around).
If you rotate your shoulders/hips away from the direction you are turning, this is counter rotation (many riders use this in their toeside turns to get hip into turn).

To each their own for sure, whatever makes you smile while getting down the hill.

In my mind A beautiful carved turn (any style) does not require significant counter rotation or rotation. Just a little here and there to help with fluidity, or get back on timing.
The board on edge with pressure will give you all the lateral direction you want.

[au]

There are well rounded snowboarders that still drop cornices, cliffs, and surf big mountain powder stashes and spines while expressing themselves with whatever rotations they feel like and are still very comfortable carving the deepest ruts on groomed piste. In my younger days, I carved my raceboards switch and carved the pipe up on my raceboard and you know pipe riding is about making turns in air or at least jump turns and the most fun is the carve turns on the vert. In fact, riding my race boards in the pipe, was a point of serious contention with Jimmy Smith (world champion) who believed these carving machines do not belong in the pipe. Try this some time and you will be a really free rider, the carve turn on the vert is like a big wave carve.

I agree with you, completely.
I like the way you're talking. At least you're well informed
May we see your riding video?

[starikashka]

I sure hope you are learning. The definition of discover is "To be the first, or the first of one's group or kind, to find, learn of, or observe."
So one can only discover an uninhabited island, continent, or whatever. If a place is already inhabited, the first person to visit and inhabit it is the discoverer not the guy that got lost and find a bunch of people there. I hope you now understand; using illogical relativity factor only suggests the the inhabitants of America predating Columbus are not considered humans hence the word untermensch. On the scientific level, there is no question about who discovered penicillin, everyone knows who Marie Curie is, and one can use invention and discovery interchangeably with caution.

In real life definition of discovery is different from yours, it also contains "seems to be first" factor. But it not worth to sped a time to seek agreement.

Back to snowboarding, I still do not understand why there is any confusion about counter rotation or its definition. It is pretty straightforward, the upper and lower body move in the same direction. There could be a time lag of a slight delay between the two and that is no cause for any difference in opinion.

Yes, i agree - it is right definition Confusion comes from blindness. Some people refuse to see this in their riding

[Silver]

Do you considere French style shown on right side as counter rotation or not?
http://web.archive.org/web/200712200634 ... swiss.html

counter-rotation is a movement, not a position.

The position you choose to stand on your board does not define if you cr or r.
...
In my mind A beautiful carved turn (any style) does not require significant counter rotation or rotation. Just a little here and there to help with fluidity, or get back on timing.
The board on edge with pressure will give you all the lateral direction you want.

I agree. Just to make it clearer,the Swiss website only stresses that "it is difficult to avoid counter rotation" when adopting French style. It does not say French style is CR.

Alpine riding is a science of mixing every techniques...

Silver

[starikashka]

Mixing in my view is not exactly right word. Rider is using different skills when it's needed. So it's like a toolbox.
You can't use all tools at once as a mixture but it's better to have more tools.

[WinterGold]

Yes, i agree - it is right definition Confusion comes from blindness. Some people refuse to see this in their riding

Do you really want to open that box again ...

I can just repeat my offer to show us concrete examples ... otherwise let it go ...

Ballard, I really like the videos! One gets some good insights into your work . Morrison would be a great freestyler as well ...

[nils]

because its almost christmas :
Link to Canon Surf 1 full movie !!!
https://youtu.be/rbo9zjdT6-o
Do not relink please !

[Silver]

One of my favorites!

Do you have CanonSurf 2?

Silver

[starikashka]

Yes, i agree - it is right definition Confusion comes from blindness. Some people refuse to see this in their riding

Do you really want to open that box again ...

I can just repeat my offer to show us concrete examples ... otherwise let it go ...

Because the box was not closed due to lack of agreement i can't open it again. If you ask then if i want this agreement the answer is No.

I'm happy to have a memory about our interesting discussion and opinions i've got out from it. If you want to change it, you are welcome.

Nils, thank you

Why those guys did not wear helmets?

[WinterGold]

Because those were the 80s and nobody gave a shit about helmets !

Nils, thank you!!!

So many good moments - starting with Regis (same outfit as in the first Apocalypse Snow video ...) doing his thing (my powder gun from 2011 almost looks the same shape wise ) to the windsurfers on ice (I remember that the French always experimented with different toys on snow and ice ... lots of monoskiers back then in Les Arcs ...) and the Hooger Booger freestylers in hardboots ... Classic stuff!!!

And most importantly - they had snow!!! Lots of snow!!!

[nils]

no helmets, no avalanche set or backpack! freedom far away from sponsoring or big brands...
Regis on his prototypes, you can see some Bird Surf prototype as well (french garage brand from those years).
The ice windsurfing is in Germany ( you have the guy's name at the end)
its the years just before the fluo went big ( 87-90 ) explaining why Regis is wearing his Killy suit..in canon surf 2 appear the oakley's and the fluo...
Silber> be patient...I might upp it but only in 2012
I saw this movie in 1988 and it made me start snowboarding, after 4-5 seasons on monoski ! I saw the apocalypse sequels after Canon Surf, and I always thought they were less good / inspiring ! My fav part beeing at 9.55 until the ice skating: full speed riding they look like Greg Noll riding giant Waimea in the 60's
N.

[WinterGold]

Yeah right, Nils, I wanted to mention the "straight lining" especially - way to go!

Windsurfing - ok, so it is from Germany ... but weren´t the French guys going down the slopes in boats and gliding above the slopes with small parachutes, etc.?

Back then I had leather gloves from Killy - everybody was wearing them - good stuff !