NEWBIE ALERT!!! Spring stiffness recommendations

[vizsyn]

Greeting EC people!!!

I would like some recommendations/advice in regard to spring rates/stiffness recommendations. While I have been riding since 1996(my current setup is a 2010 Burton T6 156cm/CO2 strap bindings/Driver X boots) Please note that I am a TOTAL NEWCOMER to the world of alpine snowboarding Winter 2011-2012 will be my rookie season on an alpine setup Please be gentle with the newbie

The Particulars:

-Height 163.5cm Weight 64kg Yes, I'm a small guy, so advice from any similarly sized riders would be most helpful... Peter Vu perhaps??? I heard that SWOARD has him as a tester for 161cm boards...
-Boots are HEAD STRATOS PRO Mondo Size 26.5(I have already purchased the boots, chopped plastic out of them, and installed ACSS, currently tuned with the stock ACSS green springs and the original silver springs from the HEAD forward lean mechanism)
-Projected board will be the SWOARD ExtremeCarver 161cm MEDIUM (just waiting on word when the GEN4 will be available for order, I have a credit card burning a hole in my pocket right now )
-Projected bindings will probably be the Bomber TD3 SideWinder, as a newbie coming from the freeride/softboot world I think the softer lateral flex would be beneficial as I learn, although the F2 Race Titaniums and Bomber TD3 Standard are also being strongly considered
-Riding skills: Intermediate(I'm decent, but I'm no expert)

With these biometrics/parameters, coupled with the fact that I'm a total alpine noob, I'm guessing I should be riding pretty soft springs with my HEADs. Given my weight(64kg), is the combination of the stock green ACSS springs with the stock HEAD springs soft enough? If I need to go even softer, where do I go to get softer springs? I was looking at the Bomber BTS yellow springs, I wonder if those are compatible with the ACSS?

A little about myself... I can comfortably link proper carved frontside and backside turns(no skidding) YES, my riding dramatically improved last season by learning and applying the rotational principles that I found here! It took most of the season, but I was finally able to rid myself of an awful counter-rotation habit, and yes I was very strict with myself about keeping my arms glued to my sides!
Towards the end of last season, I began to add elements of push-pull and finally, I attempted a fully laid-out EC turn on the frontside, resulting in a pretty good imitation of a Vitelli turn! Serge and Jean Nerva would have been soooo proud if they'd seen me!

I actually got fully extended and laid out on the frontside with both hands and forearms skimming the snow , BUT wasn't quite able to smoothly get back up due to boot overhang ruining the carve I guess there's only so much one can do with only 1210mm of effective edge, a 7.69m sidecut radius, and binding angles that maxed out at 24 degs front and 10 degs on the back foot.... My attempt at a full backside EC resulted in a pretty funny wipeout that drew cheers from the chairlifts

And so, come winter 2011-2012, my alpine adventure begins. Any recommendations, tips, advice etc will be gratefully appreciated.

[Transistor Rhythm]

I have yellow springs on my Deeluxe Indy's and the system is still a bit stiff to my liking, I weigh about +/-90kg. I like them better when I ride them unlocked but it's not safe enough....the freedom of motion was great though. I'm getting HSP's too and I would already install the softest springs in my ACSS. For me it's just there to make sure you don't get injured if you make a bad landing or something like that, otherwise a lot of people would probably just ride unlocked. Maybe it would be a good idea to look for even softer springs.

If you have the money, just buy those Sidewinders. Otherwise F2 bindings are great, just don't take the Intecs because they would be too stiff for you. The bail version of the F2 has a bit more flex than a regular bomber binding, but sidewinder (did not test it yet) will probably be better because it doesn't rely on bending the binding but is more controlled.

[Abrax]

Seems that You've got nice setup out there...

[Arnaud]

the Bomber BTS yellow springs,

These springs are much harder than the green one. For light riders like you I tried to find softer springs, but they're not available in these dimensions (only with larger diameter). I found standard soft springs but they're unpainted and rust in a few weeks

[tali]

Hi, vizsyn!
My size is about similar to yours: height 164 cm, weight 50 kg, Swoard Extremecarver Gen3, 161 S, boots Deeluxe Track 225 (mondo 23), and bindings F2 Race Titanium.
I guess that 161 M would be the best choice for you, if you make sure that your boots do not overhang. Please check the length of your boots as shown here https://www.extremecarving.com/swoard/choose.html. For 161, it should not be greater than 29 cm
As for the springs, I use the BTS kit with the softest (yellow) springs. Still, I am not 100% happy with this Deeluxe-BTS setup for myself, as it seems too stiff. They say, that the ACSS system is better. So it might be a good idea for you to get the softest spring setup for your weight. The best person to advise you about this is Arnaud.
F2 Race Titanium bindings (not step-ins) might be the best choice for you, especially if you are lucky enough to get a previous model - with thinner bails.
Hope this helps

By the way, Arnaud - what springs would you advise me (50 kg, 161S (dreaming about 161 XS)) for the ACSS system?

[pokkis]

Me, 80+kg, im using green springs which are same wire dia as Bomber yellow, but my upper is much longer and lower much shorter than original ones.
Paula is using much lighter ones due mush lower weight , non powder painted ones, but no rust after 3 years yet.

EDIT DARN this forum cuts part of picture
So here direct link to picture --> http://www.ojankaivajat.org/gallery/alb ... /boots.jpg
.

[vizsyn]

Thank you all for your input

@Transistor
-The TD3SW are definitely my first choice, just waiting on BomberOnline have them back in stock, they are saying sometime in November

@Abrax
-It will definitely be a nice setup, by far the most advanced(and EXPENSIVE) snowboard setup I'll be getting, right now I'm waiting for October 26 so can finalize my order for the 161M . Can't wait...

@Arnaud
-First things first, THANK YOU for helping me with getting the ACSS system, I received them last Wednesday and have them installed on my HSP boots.
-No springs... That's sad news for us lightweights ... Well, on the other hand maybe that'll be motivation for me to really concentrate on working out my leg muscles in preparation for the winter, so I'll have the strength to somewhat compensate. Maybe I'll eat more as well hmmmmmmm
- I did observe that the green springs appear to be a bit softer than the stock silver ones from the HEAD mechanism. Would a green/green combination instead of the green/silver combination offer a bit more softness? IN fact, I'm going to test one of the boots right now and stack two green springs to see if that is softer. If that is an option, it's looking like I may be messaging you about possibly buying another pair of those green springs from you

@Tali
-Greetings! Yay there are other small and lightweight riders out there
-I have determined that 161M should do the trick for me as 64kg is on the borderline between M an H flex choices, and the SWOARD Team encourages choosing the softer one for stronger edge grip, especially for harder groomed snow surface conditions. I'm from the East Coast part of the US, where we rarely get big powder days, it's mostly hard-packed groomed piste around here.
-I'm definitely staying away from step-in bindings... With my lack of experience on an alpine setup, I'll need a bit more lateral flex for a more forgiving ride, hence the Bomber TD3SW being my first choice(although the F2 Race Ti may win out if I can't wait for Bomber). In the case of Bomber bindings, I did read somewhere that it would be good to mill 3mm off the baseplate to bring the overall height of the binding down a bit. Jacques apparently did this on the older TD2 bindings along with a toeclip/front bail modification some years back and said it made a big difference in board feel.

[vizsyn]

Hi Pokkis!

I see that you are one of the more active ones on the forums, greetings!

Any idea as to where I might find those softer springs that Paula uses? Please note that I have Head Stratos Pro boots with Arnaud's ACSS mechanism and mods. I did consider the Deeluxe/Raichle as well, and had I gone for that I woud have had either Bomber BTS or Abrax's ACSS for Deeluxe with the curved post.

[Arnaud]

I did observe that the green springs appear to be a bit softer than the stock silver ones from the HEAD mechanism. Would a green/green combination instead of the green/silver combination offer a bit more softness?

Yes, you're right, the green spring is a little bit softer than Head one.
You can also replace the 2 springs by one. This is what I use on UPZ, and it works fine !

[pokkis]

This is where i have ordered springs for Paula and also for my self
http://www.lesjoforsab.com/default-uk.asp

[vizsyn]

Thank you all for your responses and input.

For the time being, I'll stay with the current combination of springs that I have on my ACSS setup and wait till I can actually get a few runs on the snow with them. That should give me some idea if the spring stiffness is correct. It'll be a while though, since the resorts here open very late November to mid-December.

You can also replace the 2 springs by one. This is what I use on UPZ, and it works fine !

@Arnaud
I am guessing that these longer green single springs are the ones on the other ACSS kits I see in the tray along with the HEAD ACSS kits, right?(i'm referring to the last picture you have in your ACSS manufacturing thread)
In the event I do need to get something softer, would it be possible to purchase just the springs from you?

[Arnaud]

Yes, these springs are 64mm long. It's possible to send you a pair.

[Abrax]

From technical point of view, the ACSS works fine if You are able to completely bend Your legs while just staying on Your board on a carpet in the living room. If You can easily do it, no weaker spring is really needed.

I was asked several times for a weaker spring set to my system, but just after trying the system on snow, there was no need for any weaker springs. So I can bet that it will just work as fine for You

[vizsyn]

Hi Abrax!

Just waiting on Oct 26 for the official availability of the Gen 4(I can't wait )

Once I get everything set up I will try and get some pictures/vids of me trying to flex my knees while buckled on the board and bindings. I suppose the "Longitudinal Work" portion of the instructional video that EvGen "BEN" made is a good reference as to how much I should be able to bend my knees.

In any event, I have been paying extra attention to my legs during my conditioning workouts . Just from looking at all videos that I've seen online, alpine snowboarding(especially EC) can be pretty demanding on the quad muscles.

[Fin]

Vizsyn,

Just thought I would chime in and answer a few of your questions:

I would like some recommendations/advice in regard to spring rates/stiffness recommendations

Spring selection is a tough one until you try a set and then you can better move around from there. Couple of things to remember: do NOT crank down the springs to the point where they are almost bottomed out. If you have to do this to a spring to make it feel right, then you need to go to the next stiffest spring up. We did put a gauge on the BTS for this, if the top adjusting nut goers all the way down (it won't go anymore) you are done and need to go to the next stiffest spring. Another interesting observation on springs (been now several years with selling them) spring selection seems to be more about the rider ability rather than weight and height. i have some small light guys that like the blues/reds, and then i have some huge guys who really like the yellows. But generally, if someone is new to carving we steer them towards the softer spring set-up to get them started. If and when, they need more power to the edge, it is up to them if they want to up the springs.

Also, we see a lot of mixing on the springs and it kinda makes sense when you think about it. People tend to run a stiffer spring on the "heel" side (short) spring and a softer one on the toe side. Typically you don't want/desire a lot of movement on the heel side so the stiffer spring is what these people run there. By default we biased the two springs so if you run all blue springs (medium) for example you already have a stiffer "heel side" spring.

One more thing, do not go too soft on the toe side spring. We have seen injuries related to people running boots unbuckled or the forward lean lock mechanism unlocked. If something goes wrong on you toe side turn, you can over compress the boot and cause an ankle injury. You have to have some form/enough of resistance to keep this from happening.

that it would be good to mill 3mm off the baseplate to bring the overall height of the binding down a bit.

DO NOT machine the base plate down in anyway. It is only 6.35mm thick so taking 3mm off that would make it VERY thin and would surely fail. Good news is we do have a new super lower assembly that goes on all TD2/TD3 bindings. Drops the binding about 6mm and drop close to 1/2lb of weight. You do give up the absorption of the E-ring system for this though. More information on this to come.

hence the Bomber TD3SW being my first choice(although the F2 Race Ti may win out if I can't wait for Bomber

They are assembled and ready to ship! http://www.bomberonline.com/store/bindings/td3_SW.cfm
Still says coming in November but that will change soon.

Let me know if you have any other questions and more than welcome to e-mail me directly as well. I try to check in over here as much as I can to keep up with our brothers across the pond!