2 technical issues
Moderators: fivat, rilliet, Arnaud, nils
2 technical issues
Guys,
I'd liket to raise 2 technical issues (I have my own opinions about them, but would like to test it against yours):
DAMPENING: what is it, what is it good for, pros and cons.
SIDECUT SHAPE: radius, elliptical, other types, pros and cons.
Cheers,
István
ps.: Definetely would like to see the Swoard team's opinion which I guess manifested in the Swoard
I'd liket to raise 2 technical issues (I have my own opinions about them, but would like to test it against yours):
DAMPENING: what is it, what is it good for, pros and cons.
SIDECUT SHAPE: radius, elliptical, other types, pros and cons.
Cheers,
István
ps.: Definetely would like to see the Swoard team's opinion which I guess manifested in the Swoard
Two answers...
Hi istvan,
I'll try my best )
First, dampening is more easy. It's the ability to absorb vibrations. So a snowboard is a spring-dampener-system, which would chatter around uncontrollably without dampening. The harder a board is, the more dampening is theoretically needed, but most of the very hard boards don't have enough dampening. This is why the can do great jump turns but lose edge-grip easyly. I'm not sure, if there can be too much dampening in a board, but i guess it would be ultra-stable but no more junpy. The hysteresis of materials is a good parameter for the dampening behaviour of materials, so this is one way to absorb vibration. Another effective dampener is mass, so a good distribution of it will improve dampening, too. Did I get your issue???
Sidecut is a issue, I have discussed with mates in the past very much. It's not at all that easy, because even a radial sidecut in changed by the torsio of the board. Today I believe (This might be totally different next year) that a radial sidecut gives your board a more snappy behaviour. This is, because the radius is narrower at the nose, than it is with a parabolic shape. So at the beginning of a turn, the nose of a board with radial sidecut will "pull" the board into the turn. A board with a parabolic sidecut can be steered more precisely in slight turns and the initalizing of trns is a way of softer. Until here, I'm pretty sure about the thesises
Now the part of my thoughts is coming, which I still think about. First: Because of the mentioned torsion and the rather small differences in outlines between boards with parabolic and radial sidecut, they are very similar in extremecarving turns. So a torsional slightly softer board with radial sidecut might behave the same way like a slightly harder with parabolic shape. This is beause the resulting curve on the snow surface can be exactly the same. And now there comes a point, the Swoard-crew will completely disagree. I believe, that a board with a parabolic sidecut can go every radius you want it to go just by higher angulation between the board and the surface and more pressure provided by your legs. I describe it as turn radius directly proportional to steering effort. A board with a radial sidecut tends to go it's own turn radius, not only one, but if you don't correct, maybe five different turn radii. This is more like a response in steps, than in a straight line. These are suggestions, not much more.
I have to admit, that it is naerly impossible to feel these effects without a doubt, because as mentioned the stiffness of a board and even its distribution effects the board behaviour, too. So it's nearly impossible to compare boards an to say, which one of the difference you feel depends on a special difference between the tested boards.
This is only my humble opinion, so please tell me, what you think
I'll try my best )
First, dampening is more easy. It's the ability to absorb vibrations. So a snowboard is a spring-dampener-system, which would chatter around uncontrollably without dampening. The harder a board is, the more dampening is theoretically needed, but most of the very hard boards don't have enough dampening. This is why the can do great jump turns but lose edge-grip easyly. I'm not sure, if there can be too much dampening in a board, but i guess it would be ultra-stable but no more junpy. The hysteresis of materials is a good parameter for the dampening behaviour of materials, so this is one way to absorb vibration. Another effective dampener is mass, so a good distribution of it will improve dampening, too. Did I get your issue???
Sidecut is a issue, I have discussed with mates in the past very much. It's not at all that easy, because even a radial sidecut in changed by the torsio of the board. Today I believe (This might be totally different next year) that a radial sidecut gives your board a more snappy behaviour. This is, because the radius is narrower at the nose, than it is with a parabolic shape. So at the beginning of a turn, the nose of a board with radial sidecut will "pull" the board into the turn. A board with a parabolic sidecut can be steered more precisely in slight turns and the initalizing of trns is a way of softer. Until here, I'm pretty sure about the thesises
Now the part of my thoughts is coming, which I still think about. First: Because of the mentioned torsion and the rather small differences in outlines between boards with parabolic and radial sidecut, they are very similar in extremecarving turns. So a torsional slightly softer board with radial sidecut might behave the same way like a slightly harder with parabolic shape. This is beause the resulting curve on the snow surface can be exactly the same. And now there comes a point, the Swoard-crew will completely disagree. I believe, that a board with a parabolic sidecut can go every radius you want it to go just by higher angulation between the board and the surface and more pressure provided by your legs. I describe it as turn radius directly proportional to steering effort. A board with a radial sidecut tends to go it's own turn radius, not only one, but if you don't correct, maybe five different turn radii. This is more like a response in steps, than in a straight line. These are suggestions, not much more.
I have to admit, that it is naerly impossible to feel these effects without a doubt, because as mentioned the stiffness of a board and even its distribution effects the board behaviour, too. So it's nearly impossible to compare boards an to say, which one of the difference you feel depends on a special difference between the tested boards.
This is only my humble opinion, so please tell me, what you think
Hey Istvàn
seems that I totally shocked everybody with my answer
Hey, tell me, what you think about!
Hey, tell me, what you think about!
Hi Pokkis ;))
Well, I did some calculation a few years ago. But this was mor about which radii of the parabola would be needed to effectively improve the behavior of a given radial sidecut. Well, the differences were extremely small, but tendencies could be seen...
But my answer was completely theoretical on one hand, which is: To achieve a round contact path with a bent board, you need a parabolic sidecut or more torsion. Maybe *LOL*. Problem with this is: I did not do any accurate alaysis about this, only some qualitative. On the other hand I was talking about what I thought to feel when comparing boards with radial and parabolic sidecut. Here the main problem might be to know, on what you can rely or not. Is it possible, that I feel the difference in riding between two board differing only in parts of millimeters???? I don't know, but why not??
What Du you think?
But my answer was completely theoretical on one hand, which is: To achieve a round contact path with a bent board, you need a parabolic sidecut or more torsion. Maybe *LOL*. Problem with this is: I did not do any accurate alaysis about this, only some qualitative. On the other hand I was talking about what I thought to feel when comparing boards with radial and parabolic sidecut. Here the main problem might be to know, on what you can rely or not. Is it possible, that I feel the difference in riding between two board differing only in parts of millimeters???? I don't know, but why not??
What Du you think?
Technical characteristics
Guys, I've read articles here on length, stiffnes, radius, heel-lift, angles, etc. All technical and all difficult to measure the effect of.
Now I've raised 2 other issues and you say they are too technical and come down to math, so are not worth to discuss.
István
Now I've raised 2 other issues and you say they are too technical and come down to math, so are not worth to discuss.
István
differences
It's been a while since I've been here...
Anyway, I once did the math for the difference between a radial and a parabolic sidecut. The differences are VERY small, less than 0.02mm unless you get extreme board dimensions (very long board with small radius). I don't think anybody sharpens their edges accurately enough to be sure which sidecut he's riding.
Anyway, I once did the math for the difference between a radial and a parabolic sidecut. The differences are VERY small, less than 0.02mm unless you get extreme board dimensions (very long board with small radius). I don't think anybody sharpens their edges accurately enough to be sure which sidecut he's riding.
Sidecut
Hey Tim,
The first answer really related to the question!!! Took a bit of time but a really good point.
Cheers,
István
ps.: Not to mention that this is the first reply to English topics in the last 10 days..... what's wrong with you, no Swoard no chat?
The first answer really related to the question!!! Took a bit of time but a really good point.
Cheers,
István
ps.: Not to mention that this is the first reply to English topics in the last 10 days..... what's wrong with you, no Swoard no chat?
Summertime
Well, that is an option... in this case we could come up with topics like:
- how to store equipment in summertime (mine is under the bed)
- how to prepare used equipment (not much to do with mine, fortunately)
- what to buy for the next season (already did, but can't tell here...)
- what to do instead of EC (As for myself I ride my motorbike. Very similar feeling to EC.... hurts a bit more when you miss a curve...and much more expensive to buy all the stuff you need.)
- list of open glaciers nearby (anyone knows if Sölden is open or not?)
Cheers,
István
- how to store equipment in summertime (mine is under the bed)
- how to prepare used equipment (not much to do with mine, fortunately)
- what to buy for the next season (already did, but can't tell here...)
- what to do instead of EC (As for myself I ride my motorbike. Very similar feeling to EC.... hurts a bit more when you miss a curve...and much more expensive to buy all the stuff you need.)
- list of open glaciers nearby (anyone knows if Sölden is open or not?)
Cheers,
István
- nils
- Swoard founder
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Istvan
Do not store the boards flat, it will ruin camber! At least put them vertically on the side, ideally on the tail!
Soelden opens june 29 I think, and les deux alpes opens june 19th!!
Nils
Soelden opens june 29 I think, and les deux alpes opens june 19th!!
Nils
Storing the board
Nils,
I'd like to get back on the storing issue for a sentence. Not easy to find a good place for the board to store vertically if you live in a flat and you do not have a garage.
What about laying it on the ground, up-side-down, propped-up at the nose and tail, so that the waist slightly touches the ground. In that case I guess the camber will not die.
What's your view on this?
Cheers,
István
I'd like to get back on the storing issue for a sentence. Not easy to find a good place for the board to store vertically if you live in a flat and you do not have a garage.
What about laying it on the ground, up-side-down, propped-up at the nose and tail, so that the waist slightly touches the ground. In that case I guess the camber will not die.
What's your view on this?
Cheers,
István