Plates... Naked truth :-) PART 1 (season 2010-2011)

Various topics, technical questions, announcements, events, resorts, ...

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Abrax
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Plates... Naked truth :-) PART 1 (season 2010-2011)

Post by Abrax » Tuesday 9 November 2010, 20:14

I was questioning myself why all the GS world champions use this gear...
What is Your opinion about plates?
Do they help, is there a need for a plate?
How much should it cost?
Do YOU need a plate?
Would You buy it?

or this is completely obsolete in EC...
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Post by starikashka » Tuesday 9 November 2010, 20:48

Abrax :-) it`s a good question.

If there will be a guy who understand why GS winners have an advantage with those plates and he will implement this into board design - it will be a best race board ever :-)

EC is not a racing :-)
i`m learning

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István
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Post by István » Tuesday 9 November 2010, 21:02

I would make this topic independent of EC.

The plates are designed for a single purpose: be the fastest between the gates on icy ruts. Undoubtedly, plates serve this purpose well.

My quesstion would be: is it something we, mortal funcarvers are really looking for? Do we (mortal funcarvers) really want to be completely disconnected from our boards? Is it something that would improve our riding? (assuming that we mainly ride good slopes, etc)

I don't know and yet have not had a chance to try a recent plate on a GS stick.

What do professionals think?

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Post by Abrax » Tuesday 9 November 2010, 21:49

István wrote:The plates are designed for a single purpose: be the fastest between the gates on icy ruts. Undoubtedly, plates serve this purpose well.
Heh and how is this done? Plate disconnects Your boot/boot forces from the board and lets the board edge run more fluent on the snow, so this leads to better edge grip, which leads to easier EC... And this leads to EC in tougher conditions more often...

Many times I was thinking about a gear which would ease torsional forces from the board. This came from watching ECarvers frame by frame and seeing that the board is twisted a bit between turns probably due to different forces on each boot... Plate cures this kindly.

Racing means flattening curves to avoid slip points... Methinks: putting this into EC means more laid turns in worse conditions...

:-)
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Post by pokkis » Tuesday 9 November 2010, 22:33

No snow yet but soon we will find how it works
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Post by starikashka » Tuesday 9 November 2010, 23:10

Abrax wrote:Methinks: putting this into EC means more laid turns in worse conditions...

:-)
No :-) But i will see what Pokkis will say :-)
i`m learning

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Plate System and ECing

Post by rcrobar » Tuesday 9 November 2010, 23:19

Good question(s).

I do not currently own a plate so I can only speculate how it applies to ECing. Here is my speculation. I think the three main questions of a plate system and ECing probably are:

1) Will the added plate height create forces that are too great when a wider board is used?

2) How will a plate, that is attached to the board at 4 edge points, disturb the very precise ATC/torsional flex distribution of the board as it bends/twists during a carve?

3) Now that the surface that the bindings is attached to, the plate, is not bending during a carve would cants be used to compensate or do bindings like the TD3 Sidewinder make this a non issue?

I have no idea what the answers are to these questions, hopefully this winter I will come to some conclusions. My gut feeling is that the plate is not needed for ECing but would be great for general carving in very crappy conditions.

Looking forward to hearing your feedback Pokkis:)
Cheers
Rob

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Post by pokkis » Wednesday 10 November 2010, 8:38

rcrobar wrote:2) How will a plate, that is attached to the board at 4 edge points, disturb the very precise ATC/torsional flex distribution of the board as it bends/twists during a carve?
On Donek 4x4 plate pressure is not on 4 edge points, but pretty much on normal 4x4 area. There are some other plates where pressure is laid over larger area including edges. But due this i think 4x4 might be more gentle and perhaps more normal.
But certainly the height could be most odd for EC puritanists :wink:
I will be testing similar wide boards with 4x4 setup and UPM setup. And will have my plates in Zinal so there is possibility that we could get some EC experts also test how it works in Swoard.
So there is once again interesting winter ahead.
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Post by sabestian » Sunday 28 November 2010, 12:43

Seems like a plate would be beneficial to someone who:

1. is not a good extremecarver (can't do laid turnes)
2. rides in poor conditions

That's me!
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Post by pokkis » Sunday 28 November 2010, 14:42

Why option 1?
Do you think that good EC-carver could not benefit from plates :roll:

Option 2 certainly.

I've been now finally 3 days on plate assembled to wide board, feels good but i need more time due these are first days of season and need also deeper stuff and bumbier stuff. And need my new board :wink:
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Post by sabestian » Sunday 28 November 2010, 20:00

pokkis wrote:Why option 1?
Do you think that good EC-carver could not benefit from plates :roll:
AFAIK they are not recommended for extremecarving, or for Swoard for that matter. I have not ridden either, so it is not my opinion, just gathered knowledge . Every time 'fathers' of this forum were commenting on plates it was rather politely negative.
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Post by Abrax » Monday 29 November 2010, 21:43

When I watch Swoard fathers on the snow, I can imagine that plate is not really needed -> sometimes it seems that nothing can stop them from laying down there... . And Yes, we can clearly see that EC without a plate is perfectly possible. So why would we want to pay and put them in? I'm very curious about the opinions of ECarvers who tried plates... When it comes to physics, yes it seems reasonable . But dealing them with the reality rather keep me away...
Big costs compared to a little better experience - is it really worth it? We will see :-)

Come on Pokkis give it a try!
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Post by sabestian » Monday 29 November 2010, 22:13

Abrax wrote:When I watch Swoard fathers on the snow, I can imagine that plate is not really needed -> sometimes it seems that nothing can stop them from laying down there... . And Yes, we can clearly see that EC without a plate is perfectly possible. So why would we want to pay and put them in?
Because not everyone can and will ever ride like them, and some (me!) may benefit on using them a lot, especially in crappy snow/ice conditions that they (I!) mostly ride.

On top of that, I have about a week of winter holiday to ride - if I'm lucky. Not a lot of time to practice, I want every little bit of help I can get to enjoy this week more!
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Post by Arnaud » Monday 29 November 2010, 22:21

Sabestian,
I don't believe that any kind of gear (plates or other) could help you to improve. You need mainly some good advices, then a lot of practice.
Try to join any session of the Swoard Demo Tour and you will make more progress than with any new system.

BTW, I would like to try the plate system during ECS.
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Post by Abrax » Tuesday 30 November 2010, 10:33

True, true...
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