For those of us who might be at the back of the class, including myself, I would like to ask anyone to explain one of a board's measurements. For instance, I think most of us understand board length and effective edge, waist width and tail and shovel width. The one I don't understand completely is sidecut radius.
Is this measurement (i.e., 13m) the radius of an imaginary circle? Or, is it a measurement of length? I hope this makes sense. And is there a way to figure out a boards' camber? And can a board have too much or too little camber built into it?
I hope that I've asked the questions properly.
Thanks,
Utahcarver
Board Tech
Moderators: fivat, rilliet, Arnaud, nils
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utahcarver
- Rank 1
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- Location: Logan, UT USA
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rilliet
- Swoard & EC founder
- Posts: 714
- Joined: Tuesday 26 March 2002, 10:39
- Location: Lausanne, Switzerland
- Contact:
Hi Utahcarver,
The sidecut radius is the radius of the part of circle that shapes each side of a snowboard.
But it not always a circle. Sometimes it is several circles or an ellipse or a parabola.
I've been trying several kinds of sidecut and to me, the pure radius is the most precise sidcut and the best for carving.
The camber is less important than the sidecut.
It could be mesured, but it can't be as precise as the radius because it is not constant during the board life.
A board with a lot of camber has normally more grip and is more stable, but is more difficult to manoeuvre.
Jacques
The sidecut radius is the radius of the part of circle that shapes each side of a snowboard.
But it not always a circle. Sometimes it is several circles or an ellipse or a parabola.
I've been trying several kinds of sidecut and to me, the pure radius is the most precise sidcut and the best for carving.
The camber is less important than the sidecut.
It could be mesured, but it can't be as precise as the radius because it is not constant during the board life.
A board with a lot of camber has normally more grip and is more stable, but is more difficult to manoeuvre.
Jacques
Board tech: A question about a not often discussed topic
Flex. I will not disagree about the importance of sidecut, effective edge, waist width, etc. for issues of on piste riding. I, however, am a staunch advocate of off piste hardbooting 
, where flex is one of the top two considerations for me (the other being length).
But, back to on piste. Again, I recognize the importance of specific dimensions for ideal carving and edge hold. That being said, I rarely hear much mention as to the flex of a board and its importance. I realize that flex patterns and their requirments vary from person to person as their mass and height (both of which determine the force of the human "lever" that acts upon the board in a carve).
While the physical board dimensions are discussed down to 0.5cm (pretty precise), flex is a little more elusive. It is difficult to quantify, but, boy, do I feel it is important. For me, when I evaluate a board to purchase, the first thing I do put the tail in the ground, grab the tip, and put my foot in the center and push. This gives me a good feeling for how the board is going to perform in many different conditions and how hard I can push it.
All of that being said, I am not a board manufacturer, but you guys are. One of you worked for Wild Duck (my poor Swap 161 - it was a good board, but I pulled the front inserts), and the both of you are trying to sell one. That is cool. However, I have yet to read anything here that discusses the flex of the "Extreme Carving" board.
I do not doubt the expertise of you guys, but I would love to hear you guys explain the flex patterns of your boards. I know it is difficult to put into words, but it is an important thing to consider in my opinion.
So, since this is a thread about board tech and you guys obviously (from veiwing your mpegs) know what you are doing, could you please try to explain the flex patterns of your carving boards.
Not trying to be an ass
, but I think flex is a very critical thing to consider in a board. All of the dimensions are worthless without the right flex pattern. Take the Extreme Carving board and make it too soft - it won't work - you will push it too hard in a turn, it will get into a large chatter and the edge will be lost. Take the Extreme Carving board and make it too stiff - it won't work - you will have to do MACH 1 to decamber it. Just want someone who has experience designing boards to describe the relations between physical dimensions and flex patterns.
FLEX, tough to explain, but let us try.
PEACE
, where flex is one of the top two considerations for me (the other being length).But, back to on piste. Again, I recognize the importance of specific dimensions for ideal carving and edge hold. That being said, I rarely hear much mention as to the flex of a board and its importance. I realize that flex patterns and their requirments vary from person to person as their mass and height (both of which determine the force of the human "lever" that acts upon the board in a carve).
While the physical board dimensions are discussed down to 0.5cm (pretty precise), flex is a little more elusive. It is difficult to quantify, but, boy, do I feel it is important. For me, when I evaluate a board to purchase, the first thing I do put the tail in the ground, grab the tip, and put my foot in the center and push. This gives me a good feeling for how the board is going to perform in many different conditions and how hard I can push it.
All of that being said, I am not a board manufacturer, but you guys are. One of you worked for Wild Duck (my poor Swap 161 - it was a good board, but I pulled the front inserts), and the both of you are trying to sell one. That is cool. However, I have yet to read anything here that discusses the flex of the "Extreme Carving" board.
I do not doubt the expertise of you guys, but I would love to hear you guys explain the flex patterns of your boards. I know it is difficult to put into words, but it is an important thing to consider in my opinion.
So, since this is a thread about board tech and you guys obviously (from veiwing your mpegs) know what you are doing, could you please try to explain the flex patterns of your carving boards.
Not trying to be an ass
, but I think flex is a very critical thing to consider in a board. All of the dimensions are worthless without the right flex pattern. Take the Extreme Carving board and make it too soft - it won't work - you will push it too hard in a turn, it will get into a large chatter and the edge will be lost. Take the Extreme Carving board and make it too stiff - it won't work - you will have to do MACH 1 to decamber it. Just want someone who has experience designing boards to describe the relations between physical dimensions and flex patterns.FLEX, tough to explain, but let us try.
PEACE
Hardboots are meant for more than the grooms.
-
rilliet
- Swoard & EC founder
- Posts: 714
- Joined: Tuesday 26 March 2002, 10:39
- Location: Lausanne, Switzerland
- Contact:
Hi Fox,
You are right, flex is one of the keys of a good snowboard (but only one...).
The way you are testing it in the shop gives you a good estimation of its stiffness, but nothing about its disribution.
Flex disribution is responsible of the board shape when it is been bent.
That is why a snowboard (or ski) thikness is not constant.
A good flex distribution makes the board bent regularly, like a circle arc.
It can be mesured, but the best thing is to feel it on snow, because snow conditions can't be simulated in a laboratory.
But flex is nothing without torsion stiffness.
As a snowboard is most of the time bent by one of its edges, the transmission of the flex to the edge through the tortion stiffness is crucial.
In the same way, the torsion has a stiffness and a distribution that should be adjusted (very rare on today's snowboards).
All these parameters must be adjusted to the rider's weight and the snow conditions (soft snow => harder board, hard snow => softer board).
Our prototypes are perfectly matched to each of us and adjusted sothat they work well in soft and hard snow (that's why we only need one model for each one...).
Jacques
You are right, flex is one of the keys of a good snowboard (but only one...).
The way you are testing it in the shop gives you a good estimation of its stiffness, but nothing about its disribution.
Flex disribution is responsible of the board shape when it is been bent.
That is why a snowboard (or ski) thikness is not constant.
A good flex distribution makes the board bent regularly, like a circle arc.
It can be mesured, but the best thing is to feel it on snow, because snow conditions can't be simulated in a laboratory.
But flex is nothing without torsion stiffness.
As a snowboard is most of the time bent by one of its edges, the transmission of the flex to the edge through the tortion stiffness is crucial.
In the same way, the torsion has a stiffness and a distribution that should be adjusted (very rare on today's snowboards).
All these parameters must be adjusted to the rider's weight and the snow conditions (soft snow => harder board, hard snow => softer board).
Our prototypes are perfectly matched to each of us and adjusted sothat they work well in soft and hard snow (that's why we only need one model for each one...).
Jacques