Dear community, do you have your bindings release often?
Throughout all my hardbooting career I was afraid of binding release.
It finally happened.
Three times within two riding days.
First time probably a crash triggered it, and I was quite surprised to find my rear foot free after stopping to slide.
Second time the release of the rear foot has triggered a crash.
Third time, today, at mach speed, the board started to bounce off the spring wet snow mixed with iced earth while I tried to brake after getting out of a race course. BOTH bindings released. The ridiculous plastic clip of F2 RaceTi leash snapped too, and the next thing I saw was the board running down the slope. Luckily, it flipped and stopped some 20 meters below.
Honestly, I don't really want to snowboard any more.
The bindings (F2 Race) seem to be in perfect shape and are adjusted. The UPZ RC10 too. What's wrong?
(oh, and did I mention I hate spring snow?)
Releasing bindings
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Transistor Rhythm
- Rank 5
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- Location: Eindhoven, The Netherlands
I had my front foot releasing just tomorrow because I had set it up in the wrong way. Luckily I ride with intecs, so my heel was still fixed. Still a nasty and totally unexpected crash...
I must remember myself in any day of riding to check the bindings. I had SnowPro bindings that had to be retightened every few days of riding.
I must remember myself in any day of riding to check the bindings. I had SnowPro bindings that had to be retightened every few days of riding.
I had a pair of f2-intecs a few years back, and was happy to get rid of it. it was overly sensitive to snow stuck on heels, so that clipping sometimes would take up to a few minutes. Every now and then I would get incomplete clipping, and it also had a nasty wobble, as the pin had smaller diameter than the receiver. So thanks, but no, thanks.
I was rather wondering if there is statistics of unlucky boot/binding combinations with bail bindings. I stopped using old catecs after I switched to UPZ from Raichle, because the bail wouldn't lock deep enough on UPZ, and it was a bit scary. For a while the F2s were alright, but the recent series of releases is 'a bit' concerning.
I was rather wondering if there is statistics of unlucky boot/binding combinations with bail bindings. I stopped using old catecs after I switched to UPZ from Raichle, because the bail wouldn't lock deep enough on UPZ, and it was a bit scary. For a while the F2s were alright, but the recent series of releases is 'a bit' concerning.
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actionreplay
- Rank 5
- Posts: 140
- Joined: Monday 17 January 2005, 18:13
I'm really concerned with this problem, namely since I heard about Joel (see Bomber forum) severly broking his leg after the front binding released (something broke in the F2 intec system).
Consequently, since 2006, I've use this setting on my board :
http://mathet.free.fr/leash.html
It consists in two mini-leashs, attached to each foot.
I'm not sure how strong it is, but I hope it could help from having only one leg twisted by the board if one binding only releases.
Last week, at the end of my week, I happened to broke both bindings at the (almost) same time, while backside turning. So, I still don't know if this system is efficient, since I got sit with the board completly released (not only one binding but both), but still attached to each foot by the two leashes.
Now I've just ordered a new pair of bindings (F2 Carve RS) and will try to adapt the same system on it.
Does anyone else have experimented such a system ?
Consequently, since 2006, I've use this setting on my board :
http://mathet.free.fr/leash.html
It consists in two mini-leashs, attached to each foot.
I'm not sure how strong it is, but I hope it could help from having only one leg twisted by the board if one binding only releases.
Last week, at the end of my week, I happened to broke both bindings at the (almost) same time, while backside turning. So, I still don't know if this system is efficient, since I got sit with the board completly released (not only one binding but both), but still attached to each foot by the two leashes.
Now I've just ordered a new pair of bindings (F2 Carve RS) and will try to adapt the same system on it.
Does anyone else have experimented such a system ?
I've got last week quite major thing when both my Intec bindings opened and also leash opened in full speed 
No bindings broken, no broken intec heels, no broken leash.
Only broken was my board when it hit wood.
But i was extremely happy that it did not any person and i did not hurt my self at all.
Total mystery is how this happened
And no, there was no snow stick on my heels and bindings were both properly setup and closed.
No bindings broken, no broken intec heels, no broken leash.
Only broken was my board when it hit wood.
But i was extremely happy that it did not any person and i did not hurt my self at all.
Total mystery is how this happened
And no, there was no snow stick on my heels and bindings were both properly setup and closed.
My bindings, F2 Race titaniums, has opened once during a laid turn, I think it was a frontside, because of too loose bindings. They must have touched the snow during the turn and then opened. The solution is to tighten the bindings. Unfortunately, I do not remember the boots when that happened, Raichle 323 or UPS. My suggestion is to check that the bindings are properly tightened.
harald
Hi!
I have not got such experience as colleagues (above), but let me express my opinion:
1. The bindings release happened for me three times - twice during the sharp turn (backside) - once during the fall. All of these events were caused by excessive bulk bindings. I the binding a tighten (Harald it said above) and then not had any problems.
2. Board-boots connecting: connection I have solved this way: photo
(The Spring is temporary - I have mount in this place ACSS (Abrax)).
After my fall, board remained on a leash at heel.
3. A combination of two legs to the board seems to me dangerous.
mirek
I have not got such experience as colleagues (above), but let me express my opinion:
1. The bindings release happened for me three times - twice during the sharp turn (backside) - once during the fall. All of these events were caused by excessive bulk bindings. I the binding a tighten (Harald it said above) and then not had any problems.
2. Board-boots connecting: connection I have solved this way: photo
(The Spring is temporary - I have mount in this place ACSS (Abrax)).
After my fall, board remained on a leash at heel.
3. A combination of two legs to the board seems to me dangerous.
mirek
Like "joemzl" and others - extreme dreamer every day...
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actionreplay
- Rank 5
- Posts: 140
- Joined: Monday 17 January 2005, 18:13
Why ?mirekd wrote:A combination of two legs to the board seems to me dangerous.
mirek
On my opinion, on the contrary, what is the most dangerous is to get attached to the board by one foot only. I consider that as long as two feet are attached to the board (either to a binding or to a as short as possible leash), the twist efforts are shared by the two legs. Hence the use of the two mini-leashes I've described above.
In the case the two bindings would happen to break at the same time, like it happened to me last week, obviously, being still attached by two mini leashes is not the best thing to control and to stop, but at the moment I consider this is little problem compared to what can be a leg twisted by a 168 cm board.
I'm not sure I'm right but at the moment I still consider it's the best way I have to prevent from hard knee injury.
What is your analysis ?
Hi 'actionreplay'
The problem is actually a discussion: is it better to have one leg on a leash or two ...
First let me start with the basic problem which is the maximum security (snowboarder and people on the slope) from injury in case the detach of the board. To this end, in board mounted leash and skiing ski-stop (formerly the leash).
Basic question: why does the general safety requirements refer to only one leash instead of two?
Answer:
1. a one leash is enough to protect the board from falling down the slope,
2. a one leash will allow you to control the fall by a snowboarder (assuming the position of the X-spread arms and legs) for a quick stop - board at the time free to follow you,
3. a one leash (a link to the board), protect against physical injury (sprain), legs, hips and spine) - the other leg is free and allows adjustment of the body during circulation,
4. important is the length of the leash (the longer - the better) because the body is more distant from the board. A very short leash may be "anchor" in the case of snow avalanches.
5. A board on a short leash endangers example for the head (in the seventies had just such an accident - ski picked on the leash was struck in the head (not ski-stop) and I blacked out.
Rhetorical question (no reply): On the ski lift ride you are strapped to a plank two feet or one? When is it safer? When is more control?
If it falls on the slope (loss of balance) is similar.
Tie together two legs of the board are necessary only to drive and control.
That is my opinion - What the experts say? .
Ps. The problem is difficult to adequately describe because of language difficulties - sorry.
mirek
The problem is actually a discussion: is it better to have one leg on a leash or two ...
First let me start with the basic problem which is the maximum security (snowboarder and people on the slope) from injury in case the detach of the board. To this end, in board mounted leash and skiing ski-stop (formerly the leash).
Basic question: why does the general safety requirements refer to only one leash instead of two?
Answer:
1. a one leash is enough to protect the board from falling down the slope,
2. a one leash will allow you to control the fall by a snowboarder (assuming the position of the X-spread arms and legs) for a quick stop - board at the time free to follow you,
3. a one leash (a link to the board), protect against physical injury (sprain), legs, hips and spine) - the other leg is free and allows adjustment of the body during circulation,
4. important is the length of the leash (the longer - the better) because the body is more distant from the board. A very short leash may be "anchor" in the case of snow avalanches.
5. A board on a short leash endangers example for the head (in the seventies had just such an accident - ski picked on the leash was struck in the head (not ski-stop) and I blacked out.
Rhetorical question (no reply): On the ski lift ride you are strapped to a plank two feet or one? When is it safer? When is more control?
If it falls on the slope (loss of balance) is similar.
Tie together two legs of the board are necessary only to drive and control.
That is my opinion - What the experts say? .
Ps. The problem is difficult to adequately describe because of language difficulties - sorry.
mirek
Like "joemzl" and others - extreme dreamer every day...
Two leashes is imho a great idea, I was planning to do so me too; but with the leashes attached to the bindings body not only to the steel arches.
The danger of an hard binding sudden opening still concern me a lot, as I have a friend that many years ago had an heavy accident with broken leg because of an opened/broken hard binding during an alpine race (using best brand binding...).
For xxyx: don't give up snowboarding, in 15 years of intensive soft snowboarding I've never had any problem even breaking some pieces, due to different softbinding geometry, especially with flowbindings (If you break one side racket the other three still keep some strenght to avoid feet to go out). So soft and Dual can be an option,
The danger of an hard binding sudden opening still concern me a lot, as I have a friend that many years ago had an heavy accident with broken leg because of an opened/broken hard binding during an alpine race (using best brand binding...).
For xxyx: don't give up snowboarding, in 15 years of intensive soft snowboarding I've never had any problem even breaking some pieces, due to different softbinding geometry, especially with flowbindings (If you break one side racket the other three still keep some strenght to avoid feet to go out). So soft and Dual can be an option,
Burton Speed Wide 168 - Nitro Shogun 168, Torque 164, Slash 171, etc. - snowboarder and windsurfer
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actionreplay
- Rank 5
- Posts: 140
- Joined: Monday 17 January 2005, 18:13
-- Thank you mirek for your comprehensive answer.
Your points are of interest.
On the fact that I have less control when I break both bindings and am still attached by each foot to the board, here is what I can say :
- Yes I have less control to stop than if I were attached only via one and standard leash. This means potentially a longer distance to stop (but not is all cases). But sliding on the slope after a crash may happen even with a normal leash, for instance when you fall upside down, or on the front of your body, and I have to say that the snowboard hardboots aren't the best to help compared to ski (because of the bevelled soles which can't grip the snow). So, it is a little worse with my configuration, but I'm not sure it is very different. What I experienced last week when crashing was it took me about 15 meters to completely stop, but I was sliding at low speed.
- On the fact that I can be hurt by my board in this configuration, I'm not sure. I would even think it is safer than with a normal leash, because my board can't be farer than about 10 centimeters from my feet (see pictures below, having in mind it's the same configuration for both feet). With a standard leash, the board may happen to be far from you but also to come back on your body.
So, I agree both points can be discussed. I'm not sure about me, I'm just saying how I do myself at the moment (and have been doing for 5 years now).
-- nakaniko, you wrote : "but with the leashes attached to the bindings body not only to the steel arches"
It's what I've done, of course, because if it is the steel arch which happens to break, the leash is of no use...
See here is how I've done on my last bindings which just died (and I'll try to do about the same on my bindings to come) :
And another picture :
Additionnaly, about how annoying is it to use this system : I've used it for the last 5 years. In my resort, most of the time I have to release only my back foot to take lifts (chairlifts). It's quite fast to do, but the problem is the system I use at the moment is difficult to manipulate with big glothes. So, I'm looking for something easier to attach and release even with glothes.
If I have to go for some meters only on a blue slope, I won't attach it on the rear, and there is no problem.
Note that this inconvinence, for me, is largely compensated by the fact I feel more confident once riding...
Your points are of interest.
On the fact that I have less control when I break both bindings and am still attached by each foot to the board, here is what I can say :
- Yes I have less control to stop than if I were attached only via one and standard leash. This means potentially a longer distance to stop (but not is all cases). But sliding on the slope after a crash may happen even with a normal leash, for instance when you fall upside down, or on the front of your body, and I have to say that the snowboard hardboots aren't the best to help compared to ski (because of the bevelled soles which can't grip the snow). So, it is a little worse with my configuration, but I'm not sure it is very different. What I experienced last week when crashing was it took me about 15 meters to completely stop, but I was sliding at low speed.
- On the fact that I can be hurt by my board in this configuration, I'm not sure. I would even think it is safer than with a normal leash, because my board can't be farer than about 10 centimeters from my feet (see pictures below, having in mind it's the same configuration for both feet). With a standard leash, the board may happen to be far from you but also to come back on your body.
So, I agree both points can be discussed. I'm not sure about me, I'm just saying how I do myself at the moment (and have been doing for 5 years now).
-- nakaniko, you wrote : "but with the leashes attached to the bindings body not only to the steel arches"
It's what I've done, of course, because if it is the steel arch which happens to break, the leash is of no use...
See here is how I've done on my last bindings which just died (and I'll try to do about the same on my bindings to come) :
And another picture :
Additionnaly, about how annoying is it to use this system : I've used it for the last 5 years. In my resort, most of the time I have to release only my back foot to take lifts (chairlifts). It's quite fast to do, but the problem is the system I use at the moment is difficult to manipulate with big glothes. So, I'm looking for something easier to attach and release even with glothes.
If I have to go for some meters only on a blue slope, I won't attach it on the rear, and there is no problem.
Note that this inconvinence, for me, is largely compensated by the fact I feel more confident once riding...
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actionreplay
- Rank 5
- Posts: 140
- Joined: Monday 17 January 2005, 18:13
Re: Releasing bindings
Most people I see using a normal leash attach it to one of the steel arches. I think it is important to attach it to something else (the core binding, or a special insert directly on the board), because if you break your two bindings arches, the board will run down the slope.xyxx wrote:Third time, today, at mach speed, the board started to bounce off the spring wet snow mixed with iced earth while I tried to brake after getting out of a race course. BOTH bindings released. The ridiculous plastic clip of F2 RaceTi leash snapped too, and the next thing I saw was the board running down the slope.
Hi! 'actionreplay'
You can see that each of us has some truth! The most important thing is to talk and exchange of views!
The problem would not happen if they invented snowboard-stop (without a leash) for our extremecarver.
It would be safer for us and the people on the slopes. Right?
Maybe someone has designs ....
Greetings
mirek
You can see that each of us has some truth! The most important thing is to talk and exchange of views!
The problem would not happen if they invented snowboard-stop (without a leash) for our extremecarver.
It would be safer for us and the people on the slopes. Right?
Maybe someone has designs ....
Greetings
mirek
Like "joemzl" and others - extreme dreamer every day...