The right and complete gear off piste: Recommendations!

[audacium]

Hello all,

I hope your are not shocked that I write this on the EC forum, but as there are a lot of knowledgeable people around I hope some can help.
This winter I started to ride much more off-piste than I used to. I am not stopping EC and riding on the piste, not at all, but I simply want to get back in the powder (where I often went when I was still skiing) and beforeall I want to do a lot more tours in the backcountry.
Up to now I participated in a freeride camp and I rode many variants, all this on rented gear.
As it becomes more serious, I would like to get my own gear, and here is where I need your recommendations. I simply do not really know the various bindings, board types etc in freeriding.

What are the things I want to do and that the gear has to be able to manage:
* Freeriding, that is, it can mean riding in powder or riding a steep and icy piste or couloir on the very same tour. Gear should master both situations
* Mounting and setting own path: I would like to do this with special short skies (instead of snow shoes)
* Being able to stay out for a few days

Ok, what are the single items I need:
* Freeride board: as mentioned, needs to handle powder as well as steep and icy passages reasonably well --> versatility. What do you recommend?
* Freeride boots and bindings: Three questions:
- I prefer hardboot feeling, maybe it is even a possibility to ride my hardboots (but I doubt it because of forward leaning), but if not: which softboots resemble hardboot feeling? (Flow? Clicker?) Or maybe even "ski tour boots" on the snowboard?
- I like a good connection to my board, similar to hardboot bindings. What bindings can you recommend? I only tried out the "normal" bindings until now, but not Flow or clicker bindings. As I understand these bindings might be similar to hardboot bindings. Same as above: maybe even using ski-tour bindings on the board
- and important: as I would like to use short skies for the ascent, boots and bindings should be compatible to be used with such short skies. I understand classic softboots will be difficult or impossible to use with short skies. That is why I am wondering whether ski-tour boots and bindings might be a good compromise.
* Freeride rucksack: Ok, there are millions of models on the market. But what volume do you recommend? Are 40l enough for week-long tours?
* Any other suggestions, regarding "avalanche-search-beeps" (what are they in English ), sleeping bag, small tent etc.?

I wanted to pose my question in this forum first (instead of classic softboot forum) because most people will understand my background as a carver and hardbooter


Thank you very much in advance,

Eduard.

[SITO]

hi Eduard
a good board is duotone mtx for freeride and piste designed for florian okley one of the best freeriders in the world also you can use
boots salomon malamute for example
bindings drake aluminum, nidecker carbon for example (always hard soft bindings)

hard soft boots are better than hard boots because they have more lateral flexibility than hard boots, moreover if you want to ascent for a corridor, hard snow board boots don't be good.

Problem, you must use snow shoes not little skies

Is better that if you want to go to an technic excursion you carry a plastic mountain boots , and the most equipment in the backpack

crampons, piolet is very important

the bakpack 40l for a weekend is good (depend if you sleep in tent or in a refugy) for most days in the mountain 65 minimum.

sleeping bag at least -25
tent expedition at least 3000mm in the roof and 10000mm in the floor
for many days in tent little kitchen gas(coleman for example)
spade
arba
sonda for avalanche
I think that is sufficient whith this material as you can see I don't use hard boots I prefer walk in the mountain and feel it

ciao

Ride hard;100%fun

[audacium]

Hi Sito,

thanks for your answer. I have some questions, however:

* Don't you think it might be possible to use short skies with hard softboots? I tried out snowshoes once and did not like them very much. Especially for a traverse they are less than ideal.
* What do you mean with technical excursion?
* I think normally one stays in a refugy, so sleeping bag does not have to be extremely winterproof. But how can one ride with a 65l backpack? Isn't it much too heavy? But obviously 40l will be too little for a six day tour...


Thank you and all the best,

Eduard.

[nils]

I'd definitely recommend:
A hard boot set up!
- with softer boots like the SB 121, which has vibram soles, and the ability to receive standard crampons.
- Plates that are light (such as fins carbon, head DNA...)
- a board that can grip hard snow and also is great in powder: i'd take a swallowtail but a good freeride board (not too wide for when it is very steep) will also work
- an ABS airbag backpack with 35 liter capacity (bigger model) (just got the 15 liter for day freeriding) its great and construction is like 10 times better than da kine
- Beacon, shovel, pole of course!

Nils

[audacium]

Hi Nils,


thanks for replying.

> A hard boot set up!
> - with softer boots like the SB 121, which has vibram soles, and the
> ability to receive standard crampons.

Yes, because of the ability to install crampons I would be inclined also to hardboots. However, what do you use for the ascent? Snowshoes or short skies? Aren't snowboard hardboots too much forward leaning to be used on the short skies?

> - Plates that are light (such as fins carbon, head DNA...)

What do you mean? Light regarding the weight? Are there large differences?

> - a board that can grip hard snow and also is great in powder: i'd take a
> swallowtail but a good freeride board (not too wide for when it is very
> steep) will also work
Well, in my impression a swallowtail is very nice for powder, but it is also quite specialised towards powder. So I could image to prefer for now a more versatile board with a "classic freeride shape". The Duotone boards Sito recommended look nice.

> - an ABS airbag backpack with 35 liter capacity (bigger model) (just got
> the 15 liter for day freeriding) its great and construction is like 10 times
> better than da kine
Funny you mention that. Exactly because I have been offered to buy a 40l ABS airbag backpack for very little money (compared to the usual prices). It is a special edition made for the summit club of the DAV (German Alpine Club), I was simply thinking whether 40l is a good size. Apart from that I should probably not hesitate to get an ABS backpack, what do you think?

> - Beacon, shovel, pole of course!
Yes, these things are clear, and here the choice is not so large.

It is really the snowboard - boots - bindings setup, together with short skies, that is bothering me most.


Thanks and Blue Skies,

Eduard.

[jeanbernard]

> What do you mean? Light regarding the weight? Are there large differences?

indeed, there can be like 800g difference between 2 pairs of bindings. that may feel a lot when you have to carry it while climbing...

> Well, in my impression a swallowtail is very nice for powder, but it is also quite specialised towards powder. So I could image to prefer for now a more versatile board with a "classic freeride shape". The Duotone boards Sito recommended look nice.

btw, duotone also has a split-board... why not a split-board? I believe burton also produces a model of split-board, as well as voilé (split-swallowtail)

-> Apart from that I should probably not hesitate to get an ABS backpack, what do you think?
no, you should not hesitate, go for it!

[Felix]

Just a tip if you want to go extreme!

Get yourself F2 soft stepins and duotone touring pants including intec system. So if you are inside an avalanche you just pull on your trousers and your board is of. This including ABS will definitely keep you above the snow. Means as well you need to invest big money.
Tip: MTX is cool. get it 160 to 170. Shorter is better for carrying and steeps (just in case of 45 deegres and plus). Longer just gives you the awesome feeling.

[audacium]

Thanks so far for all the answers.

A splitboard...I simply have heard too many different answers to invest in such a board now. Obviously they have improved a lot while some say it is still no comparison with a normal board. In addition, they say, the mechanism to hold the two parts together gets tired after a while...

Now it becomes clear that the main question will be whether I can find a good combination of boots / bindings and the usage of short skies.
The problem with snow shoes is that I mostly go out with mixed groups, that is, skiers and snowboarders, often I am the only snowboarder. So, for short hikes no problem to use snowshoes (though I do not really like them), but for longer ascents one is simply too slow compared to skiers.

So, does anyone know a system where I can use "hard" softboots together with short skies? Or is there no chance?

Regarding backpack: I will get the ABS backpack. It is very expensive, but when one needs it one will be happy about it It is 40l, so should be ok for weekend tour up to several day tours.

For the board...the Duotone seems like a good tipp..maybe I can try it out before buying. Felix, do you use it yourself?


Thanks and greetings from Eduard.

[SITO]

Hey Eduard

I have mtx, for me is a good board, and if you put the bindings in the more back position it's very confy to ride in power. because the nose don't insert in the snow and you don't make many effort whith the back leg
and you can use in the piste in the normal insert position.

normally also I go whith skiers, and I used snow shoes and I haven't any problem in ascent with them.

40l is correct for a week-end I think.

And some recommend freeride soft boots are incompatible whith mini skis this is the little price that you can pay for a good session of backcoutry

ciao

Ride hard;100%fun

[jason_watkins]

Karhu makes fat short skies with softboot strap bindings. Some have built in skins too.

If you decide on hardboots instead for glaciers, rossingal makes a short fat ski named "expedition" that has an alpine touring style binding.

[Felix]

No, but I tested it for a day. It was very good but slightly heavy compared to the F2 Lightglide I bought. (I believe they don't produce Lightglide any more as it was so light it broke to often, I ripped out the edge but the sended me a new one). By the way. Duotone and f2 are produced in the same factory. (Correct me if I'm wrong, Blue-tomato told it to me)

Good luck

[audacium]

Hello all,


after I have made several backcountry tours with my new quiver (which I got with a lot of rebates due to end of season ) I wanted to let you know about my experiences.

Freeride board: Nitro Shogun 169
A really excellent board. Very light, stable on the edge but still very easy to turn due to its well-thought shape. A lot of fun to ride! I can recommend this board to everyone.

Bindings: Burton P1 HD
So far I am also very content with them. Light, very stable, very good hold, many possibilities to adjust to personal preferences. The only thing I am concerned a little bit are the buckles which do not have much protection so I will see whether they wear out quickly.
I also tried the Flow bindings, but I did not like them at all. Too little support for forward lean due to the missing buckle across the foot, and IMO impossible to put on in steep terrain as you need space behind the foot.
I did not try out step-ins though, I simply worried too much about icing problems in the step-in systems, so I sticked to the "classic" system.

Boots: Salomon Malamute
Very very good boots. Even excellent. Very comfortable to wear, very good hold, together with the Burton bindings they give very good edge feeling and grip. Not comparable with hardboots, but really good and satisfying. I also tried out the Salomon Maori which are rather for Freestyle and thus rather soft.

If you come from a hardboot background this bindings and boots combination seems to me a very pleasant one because you do not have this totally soft and loose feeling from standard softboots and bindings.

After having compared both - hardboots as well as softboots - in powder I prefer softboots by far. IMHO only softboots give this fantastic surf feeling. And at least with my combination of boots and bindings I did not have any difficultied in descending also rather steep and icy passages - edge hold etc. was more than sufficient. So hardboots with a Swoard for the piste, softboots etc. for powder are now my choice!

Ascent: Rossignol Freeventure expedition
Ok, but not more. Compared to snowshoes they offer the possibility to use existing skiing ascents. Apart from that I do not see advantages to snowshoes which are much lighter (preferred for the ascent ).
Main problem: These short skies are only good for easy to moderate conditions. That is, as soon as it gets steep or there is powder they use very much effort to follow skiers. They are simply too short, at least for me with about 80 kg, so they cannnot properly carry my weight. Also for traversing slopes they do not work really well as they glide away downwards at each step (again because they are so short and the snow cannot carry so much weight on a short distance).
What works very well though is the softboot binding - no critique here.
I worried about all this before but unfortunately gave ear to a dealer who claimed all this would be no real problem, I would be just a little bit slower than skiers. Well, I learned my lesson here.
What I conclude: Nothing beats normal touring skis on moderate or hard backcountry tours, at least if you want to keep pace with skiers (the ones I know are quite fast for the ascent...) I need to think about a good solution here (do not want to go with skies )

Backpack: ABS Avalanche backpack 40 l
Nice to carry, many possibilities to store things, needed to be adapted, however, to carry my board. Of course soewhat heavier than a normal backpack due to the avalanche system, but that very well acceptable.


Well, these are my experiences so far, I had a lot of fun with all the equipment except for the short skies which at times during ascent mad me really angry. Let me know if you would like to have more information.

Thanks again for all the food of thought you gave me, it helped a lot when I tested the material and finally bought some.


Greetings, Eduard.

[drcr]

I have no clue if anyone is following this thread, but I figured I'd post anyway.

Climb : http://www.climb.co.at/e.htm

They make what appears to be a nice collapsibe, crampton ski for use snowboarders. Check out their movie(s).

DrCR

________

[SITO]

Hi guys!
Somebody could send me a picture of Raichle SB 121??
siproden@tiscali.es

Thanks Sito

[SITO]

I got it!!

Advice: -what socket do you use with em? fine or thick?
- the size would be the same that race boots or the same
that mountain- boots?, (if with this boots you walk by the mountain they don't fit you as tight as the race boots , so I suppose that you must choose your street size shoe. )

Thanks in advice
Sito