Hi all. I bought myself a SWOARD about 18 months while living in Geneva having been seriously inspired by a number of movies about carving (you know who they are!). I'm now in Australia so plenty of surf but snow is not at all close however another trip is due soon.
I've had 3 snow trips now but I can't for the life of me get over the 'toilet-butt" problem and it's really doing my head in. I've looked at the 'Technique' page and loads of videos of people carving beautifully. I've also had a few friends pass on their suggestions however I feel my 'problem' is much more fundamental than what these and the web pages and video can do to help.
I've uploaded a video of me in Aspen earlier this year to give you an idea of how bad (!) the situation is.
Overall, probably due to my goofy surfing style, I feel most comfortable making left-hand turns. Transitioning from a left / forehand turn to a right / backhand is a big problem for me (check the video).
What I'm trying to achieve is a natural, smooth and flowing, relatively upright (i.e. not bent over at the waist) carving style without having to rotate my shoulders in an extreme fashion to turn. That style doesn't appeal to me.
Any constructive suggestions and feedback welcome...except any suggesting I give up and try another sport!
JB
How do I get rid of the "Toilet Butt" techniques i
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dedicatedgoofy
- Rank 1
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Tuesday 10 November 2009, 8:26
Think Hips
Hello
I’ll start the ball rolling with a bit of food for thought.
Your legs and ankles need to be flexed at the very beginning of your turn; when your board is facing the across of the run/piste.
If your body moves into the following position when the board is facing directly down the run/piste it will be very difficult to do the toilet set position:
-legs are fully extended
-hips (don’t think about your shoulders) are perpendicular to the nose of your board
As a test, lean your back against a wall, flex your legs and get into the toilet seat position, now extend your legs and rotate your hips. Don’t worry about your shoulders they will follow. I think you will see the toilet seat is gone or reduced greatly.
It is my suggestion that your legs are not bending extending, enough, throughout the turn.
It is also my suggestion that your hips are not rotating during the turn; you are fighting with your shoulders and arms, but your hips aren’t listening☺
-The hips will be parallel to the board, at the apex of a turn, during a frontside.
-The hips will be perpendicular to the board, at the apex of a turn, during a backside.
Take this advice with a grain of salt, as there should be many experienced riders offering their advice as well.
Best of Luck
Rob
PS:
I’ll start the ball rolling with a bit of food for thought.
Your legs and ankles need to be flexed at the very beginning of your turn; when your board is facing the across of the run/piste.
If your body moves into the following position when the board is facing directly down the run/piste it will be very difficult to do the toilet set position:
-legs are fully extended
-hips (don’t think about your shoulders) are perpendicular to the nose of your board
As a test, lean your back against a wall, flex your legs and get into the toilet seat position, now extend your legs and rotate your hips. Don’t worry about your shoulders they will follow. I think you will see the toilet seat is gone or reduced greatly.
It is my suggestion that your legs are not bending extending, enough, throughout the turn.
It is also my suggestion that your hips are not rotating during the turn; you are fighting with your shoulders and arms, but your hips aren’t listening☺
-The hips will be parallel to the board, at the apex of a turn, during a frontside.
-The hips will be perpendicular to the board, at the apex of a turn, during a backside.
Take this advice with a grain of salt, as there should be many experienced riders offering their advice as well.
Best of Luck
Rob
PS:
This is an interesting statement. It seems to me that form will follow function. A question to ask your self might be; is the rotation really a style, or is it is a technique that can be infused with a persons’ individual style?dedicatedgoofy wrote:What I'm trying to achieve is a natural, smooth and flowing, relatively upright (i.e. not bent over at the waist) carving style without having to rotate my shoulders in an extreme fashion to turn. That style doesn't appeal to me.
bending
For what I can see in this shaky video.
Problem
I see you try to touch the snow with your hands in the wrong way: result you are bending over from the hips. So start stopping to reach to the snow, don't even think about it. Due to this handreaching-the-snow-problem, you have a very static position/stance and bending in the hips. Instead of bending in the knees!
Solution
So bend your legs/knees more, try to reach with your left hand in a frontside turn (you are goofy) your right side of your board. Your shoulders MUST follow then.
If you don't hangon the rotationstyle of movement, you can also try the crossunder. Then you have to work even harder with your knees. I will search for vid of that.
Here is one cross under, you can see that his upperbody almost doesn't move, almost no rotation:
Another praxis: Here is the cross-over, just bring your bodyweight over the right or left edge, just bending your knees a little, no rotation!:
When you combine those two you get an active freecarve technique with a little rotation because your shoulders follow where you are going but not like the 'overrotation' which is involved with EC carving:
In this one there is some more rotation:
Here you can find some practicing where a lot of styles are in, but always use your knees to bend to the snow not your hips/upperbody otherwise you get that ugly style:
Problem
I see you try to touch the snow with your hands in the wrong way: result you are bending over from the hips. So start stopping to reach to the snow, don't even think about it. Due to this handreaching-the-snow-problem, you have a very static position/stance and bending in the hips. Instead of bending in the knees!
Solution
So bend your legs/knees more, try to reach with your left hand in a frontside turn (you are goofy) your right side of your board. Your shoulders MUST follow then.
If you don't hangon the rotationstyle of movement, you can also try the crossunder. Then you have to work even harder with your knees. I will search for vid of that.
Here is one cross under, you can see that his upperbody almost doesn't move, almost no rotation:
Another praxis: Here is the cross-over, just bring your bodyweight over the right or left edge, just bending your knees a little, no rotation!:
When you combine those two you get an active freecarve technique with a little rotation because your shoulders follow where you are going but not like the 'overrotation' which is involved with EC carving:
In this one there is some more rotation:
Here you can find some practicing where a lot of styles are in, but always use your knees to bend to the snow not your hips/upperbody otherwise you get that ugly style:
Choices
Hi Hans
Interesting observations Hans. I think my comments were really focusing on john.bakker’s backside turn, because of the toilet position title in the thread. I really didn’t watch the frontside, bending at the waist, all that closely. As you mentioned the video is pretty shaky. I think I also assumed, perhaps wrongly, that because john is on a Swoard that his goal was to ride like Patrice when he is just smoothly carving around.
Regardless, john.bakker now has a few things to think about.
Cheers
Rob
Interesting observations Hans. I think my comments were really focusing on john.bakker’s backside turn, because of the toilet position title in the thread. I really didn’t watch the frontside, bending at the waist, all that closely. As you mentioned the video is pretty shaky. I think I also assumed, perhaps wrongly, that because john is on a Swoard that his goal was to ride like Patrice when he is just smoothly carving around.
Regardless, john.bakker now has a few things to think about.
Cheers
Rob
Know that one
Thanks, that's a mix vid of all the instruction vids you can find here on swoard.com. Very good indeed but also very 'rotational' and that's not what John is looking for 
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Transistor Rhythm
- Rank 5
- Posts: 302
- Joined: Monday 10 March 2008, 9:46
- Location: Eindhoven, The Netherlands
In my observation your legs are static and you don't rotate enough. If you want to ride 'the' EC style you should really exaggerate rotation and push-pull. Also, the Swoard board is somewhat optimized for those kind of motions, especially push-pull is important. I see you still drift a lot during turns, so I think you are not giving the board what it asks for.
See for yourself if the limitation in bending your legs lies in your own technique or if this limitation is in your boots. For me a lot of problems in my technique suddenly disappeared when I was able to flex my ankle more! There are some possibilities for most hardboots to get some more flex. Sometimes just the flick of a switch on the rear of your boot can be enough, sometimes it requires more serious work or even different boots.
But for the toilet seat problem, this problem only occurs when you stick your butt out and your hips are not aligned with the board. If you watch the last part of kurtsk8's movie, you actually also see that his butt is sticking out, but only to the rear of the board, and together with flexed ankles and knees. So I would say you would benefit by trying to exaggerate rotation and make sure your hips rotate in too.
But there are many ways to ride an alpine snowboard, but judging by your choice for a Swoard EC is your main goal. But ultimately you want to learn all possible techniques and use them when appropriate.
Keep us posted on your progressions!
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You boots seem to be Head Stratos. Is this correct? Do a search on this board for them, there is a big French thread on how to modify them for optimum flex, with a lot of pictures to keep it interesting for people that can not read French
See for yourself if the limitation in bending your legs lies in your own technique or if this limitation is in your boots. For me a lot of problems in my technique suddenly disappeared when I was able to flex my ankle more! There are some possibilities for most hardboots to get some more flex. Sometimes just the flick of a switch on the rear of your boot can be enough, sometimes it requires more serious work or even different boots.
But for the toilet seat problem, this problem only occurs when you stick your butt out and your hips are not aligned with the board. If you watch the last part of kurtsk8's movie, you actually also see that his butt is sticking out, but only to the rear of the board, and together with flexed ankles and knees. So I would say you would benefit by trying to exaggerate rotation and make sure your hips rotate in too.
But there are many ways to ride an alpine snowboard, but judging by your choice for a Swoard EC is your main goal. But ultimately you want to learn all possible techniques and use them when appropriate.
Keep us posted on your progressions!
-------------
You boots seem to be Head Stratos. Is this correct? Do a search on this board for them, there is a big French thread on how to modify them for optimum flex, with a lot of pictures to keep it interesting for people that can not read French
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dedicatedgoofy
- Rank 1
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Tuesday 10 November 2009, 8:26
Transistor, Hans, kurtsk8, Rob, Tom...
...thanks for your time guys, I'll imprint your advice.
Yes my boots are HEAD Stratos. I actually have a SWOARD and also a 'Two' from Joerg at Pureboarding to get me started and also to cover a wider variety of mountain conditions until I'm ready for the SWOARD..(ok I was a bit too optimistic, bought a Porsche Turbo when I was only ready for a Mini!).
Key learning points:
a) I'm going to concentrate on rotating the hips to initiate turns, the shoulders can follow (somewhat) and the board WILL follow
b) I'm going to forget reaching for the snow, focus on a)
c) I need to bend my knees more, esp prior to starting a turn
One point which has been on my mind is that I feel I don't use the edge of the board enough (at all?) to establish a running edge for a turn.
Would you agree that besides the points you've mentioned, I should also drive the toe & heels harder / lean more into turns so the board is more on it's edge?
Thanks again for your advice guys, it's appreciated...apols for what you saw in the video, learners blues!
JB
Yes my boots are HEAD Stratos. I actually have a SWOARD and also a 'Two' from Joerg at Pureboarding to get me started and also to cover a wider variety of mountain conditions until I'm ready for the SWOARD..(ok I was a bit too optimistic, bought a Porsche Turbo when I was only ready for a Mini!).
Key learning points:
a) I'm going to concentrate on rotating the hips to initiate turns, the shoulders can follow (somewhat) and the board WILL follow
b) I'm going to forget reaching for the snow, focus on a)
c) I need to bend my knees more, esp prior to starting a turn
One point which has been on my mind is that I feel I don't use the edge of the board enough (at all?) to establish a running edge for a turn.
Would you agree that besides the points you've mentioned, I should also drive the toe & heels harder / lean more into turns so the board is more on it's edge?
Thanks again for your advice guys, it's appreciated...apols for what you saw in the video, learners blues!
JB
Re: Transistor, Hans, kurtsk8, Rob, Tom...
It's just the other way around. You first look where you are going, move your shoulders with it (so not only turning your head), the shoulders will follow and then a little your hips.dedicatedgoofy wrote:a) I'm going to concentrate on rotating the hips to initiate turns, the shoulders can follow (somewhat) and the board WILL follow
Good point, just take a (long) stick and put it in front of you with both hands on it at shoulderwidth, that stick must always be parallel to the mountain (very good exercise and difficult, you have to concentrate)dedicatedgoofy wrote:b) I'm going to forget reaching for the snow, focus on a)
Your knees are what the suspension is in a (race) car. If you don't relax your knees you can't steer and absorb bumps in the terrain and your board will be uncontrolable.dedicatedgoofy wrote:c) I need to bend my knees more, esp prior to starting a turn
Good point. This follows when you're pushing your knees. Take for instance a frontside and push and bend your knees forward. You automatically stand on your toes. Another excercise which you don't have to do anything for and is seen in the mentioned vids above ( at first even no need to bend your knees, take a flatter piste!) Take for instance a backside, choose a flat blue or green piste, make some speed, stay static in your body, don't turn shoulders, arms or hips, don't bend your knees and fall a little backwards till you feel the board is on an edge and stay there. You can also do this with the frontside. Now you can feel the board is on the edge and carves. So just simple move your bodyweight and stay static. Your board will carve on its own. The board will make a turn because of the natural radius which is in the board. The more you push the board with your knees, the more it will bend, the smaller the arc you go, the more easier you can hold a carve and the more easier it is to lean your entire body to the snow (easier with steeper pist because your body will sooner be close to the mountain due to the angle you make with the mountain).dedicatedgoofy wrote:One point which has been on my mind is that I feel I don't use the edge of the board enough (at all?) to establish a running edge for a turn.
Cheers, Hans.
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christian61
- Rank 5
- Posts: 316
- Joined: Friday 17 November 2006, 19:40
- Location: Northern Bavaria, Germany
Re: How do I get rid of the "Toilet Butt" techniqu
Hi John,dedicatedgoofy wrote:I've uploaded a video of me in Aspen earlier this year to give you an idea of how bad (!) the situation is.JB
I can only say: You are not alone! I have more or less the same problems, and I have asked similar questions, and also supplied a video (in case you're interested: http://www.fosbosweiden.de/wolf/MVI_2598_neu.avi).
I guess we'll just have to keep trying and learning.
Christian
SWOARD EXTREMECARVER GEN4 168s + 161m, Deeluxe 225 + ACSS
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starikashka
- Rank 5
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- Joined: Friday 29 February 2008, 20:07
- Location: Russia
- Contact:
If i would be John i would have complete mess in my head 
John, see what Kurtsk have posted - rotation technique would help to fix your problem, also you will need most easy slope to keep comfortable speed and do everything right. You will have a time to increase your speed, do not rush.
Hans - you posted the video of the guy running on blue slope using center of mass movement to change the edges. Do you recommend to john use this technique to fix his backside problem?
John, see what Kurtsk have posted - rotation technique would help to fix your problem, also you will need most easy slope to keep comfortable speed and do everything right. You will have a time to increase your speed, do not rush.
Hans - you posted the video of the guy running on blue slope using center of mass movement to change the edges. Do you recommend to john use this technique to fix his backside problem?
i`m learning