How to improve the safety on the pist...

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Gunnar
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How to improve the safety on the pist...

Post by Gunnar » Sunday 22 April 2007, 13:45

After a few "very close of being hit from behind" experienses, I got an ide aboute how to improve my visibility in the slopes: A strong LED rear light for bikes, mounted on the top of my backpack.
Have anyon tryed this before?
I think it can be very effective on nightskiing. And with a strong LED, i think it could be usefull allso in daylight.
I have a few old LED lamps to test, but i think they are to weak for daylight...

/Gunnar

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Post by jeanma » Sunday 22 April 2007, 20:51

Are U a night polar circle rider Gunnar :lol: ?

Gunnar
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Post by Gunnar » Sunday 22 April 2007, 22:02

From now on, I'm a DISCO STAR on the slope..

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harald
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Post by harald » Monday 23 April 2007, 10:20

Hi Gunnar,
We met in Hemsedal Sunday afternoon, the other guy with the SWOARD board. This problem is serious because we are running more traverse than skiers and some skiers are wrecklessly fast, often when they think they are "alone" at slopes when we are out doing EC. Morning time is best due to best conditions (grooming and not so crowded). Saturday I was almost run down by a skier in downhill position and 100 km/h, even if I was standing still at the very edge of the slope. May be discolight is one idea. Another option is better skipatrolling. It is possible to be stationed at dangerous parts of the slopes or be at the slopes where skiers (and also some snowboarders) go dangerously fast and show nul tolerance for dangerous running. This is also according to the general FIS rules for how to behave at the slopes. According to these rules, speed skiing (downhill, superG and fast GS) should only be practiced in closed areas. Those persons that do not respect these rules are not only a danger for carvers but also for other skiers, such as children and beginners. In my opinion many ski resorts are to sloppy on that point. Unfortunately, Hemsedal is one of the worst places so you can start there.
harald

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István
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Post by István » Monday 23 April 2007, 13:37

Harald, pretty much agree with what you say here. On the other hand I would also establish an other category, that I call the spectator / follower skier or just a tail. :evil:

I guess we all know the phenomenon when the not too skilled carving skier tries to follow our trenches. They typically succeed on less steep parts, but when you reach a nice steep area and aggressively lay down into a nice carve they tend to hit us not being able to turn that fast. :?

My left shoulder has been clicking for 3 years now thanks to a guy like this.... :(

We also need to come up with a solution to get rid of these guys. My strategy currently is to sit and wait until they piss off..... let me know if someone has a better solution. :?:


Kindest

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Post by Gunnar » Monday 23 April 2007, 14:34

Harald, It was veeery nice to see, and meet other carvers on my home mountain! I only wish i had more time to ride with you. I think I will be able to do more carving next winter, because my 3,5 year old son made his first run down the green slope "Turistlöypa" yesterday. So hopefully the days in the children’s area are over for a while (we also have a 3month girl in the family).
I think it’s very good that this problem being discussed! And I totally agree with both of you. (Getting own kids have certainly made me more aware of this problem)
The problem for the Skipatrol is that we also have many other important duties on the mountain. Our "work load" changes allot, due to changing whether conditions, and numbers of injuries. (The last day we met, I didn’t have time to eat until after 1500h... And I wasn’t even supposed to be at work that busy day, because my doctor found out that I had both the flue and a nasty throat infection… YES I’m a stupid hero! :) but someone has to do it..)
Also the wreck less skiers problem changes allot from day to day. The most efficient way to get rid of that kind of idiots, are when other skiers asks the lifties to tell the Skipatrol about the problem in a certain slope/area. (The idiots tend to go in the same slope to go fast several times) And WE ARE listening, and are very thankful for that kind of response!
I work also at night skiing, and in periods it can be totally wild, and we remove several ski pass from skiers every night! (The record is over 15 on one evening. But I can’t recall ever taken the skipass from a snowboarder due to speeding!!) Other periods it’s no problems at all, even if the system is full of tourists.
I believe that this problem would be allot smaller if a certain level of Skipatrol service was demanded by law in every ski area. (In some countrys, I believe the Skipatrol are a part of/under the Police department. Right?)
We are not even allowed to cut away a small part of the corner of a skipass as a warning any more. That was a VERY “easy, nice” and efficient way to make people listen to us without being offended and angry by having their ski pass removed, and their day destroyed. No mater if they disagree with us, as in almost ALL incidents, (due to the lack of speedometers and speed limits. And you won’t believe what kind of threats you can get when removing a persons skipass..! And its not uncommon that they try hard, to get away from us to!) After that kind of “positive interferences”, the skier would continue to ride, and hopefully "learn" to choose the right speed for the occurring conditions. Instead of going angry down to the bar, and “drink away” his disappointment, and what he just learned.
I hope this discussion will continue until the problem is history! (:roll: Am I a pessimist if a predict that this tread can brake records...?)

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harald
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Post by harald » Monday 23 April 2007, 16:20

István, the problem seems to be universal at almost every resort and my strategy is the same that yours (and most carvers) sit down and wait. Maybe I am too afraid, but I also stop when I see some skier coming from behind, even far, because they do not either see us or understand how we run. But it takes a lot of our precious time on the slopes.
Gunnar, I know that Hemsedal is a large resort with many slopes, and I know the patrol has many tasks, but the problem is most serious in three or four of the slopes, so it should be manageable. To me, this is a management problem, as in New York where it is was decided to show nil tolerance for everyday crime, and in they succeeded there.
In Tryvann Vinterpark, my local resort in Oslo, there is a system with ski ambassodors or ski hosts with the overall objective to make the resort a pleasant place to visit. For the moment we are 6 persons who ski often and in a way we assist the ski patrol with observing wreckless skiing, among other duties. We do not have the authority to take the ski pass, but to give warnings in a polite manner and also to guide the persons to the lift personnel in serious cases. We have visible identifications and do this on a voluntary basis in return of a free seasonal ski pass. In addition, all ski instructors have a similar obligation. The idea is imported from US ski resorts. I think Oppdal has a similar system with ski ambassadors. My impression, is that the problem has diminished in Tryvann. The visitors appreciate it. Also in Oppdal, my experience is that there are fewer dangerous skiers (but I have only been there outside crowded holidays and week-ends). I am certain that if the resort management acknowledge wreckless skiing to be a problem that scares many visitors, they will also deal with it. But if nobody tells the resort management may think everything is fine. I do not hope they do not care (but it could seem so).
Nice meeting you. Now the season is over for my part, but hopefully we meet again next year.
harald

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Post by Gunnar » Monday 23 April 2007, 23:13

harald wrote:I am certain that if the resort management acknowledge wreckless skiing to be a problem that scares many visitors, they will also deal with it. But if nobody tells the resort management may think everything is fine. I do not hope they do not care (but it could seem so).
Nice meeting you. Now the season is over for my part, but hopefully we meet again next year.
I think you are right on the spot there Harald! And I know they care. And if everybody who experienced dangerous situations would complain about it to the management in the ski areas, things would certainly happen, very fast.
Make sure you stop by at our watch room next winter and have a coffee!

/Gunnar

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Post by Galynet59 » Wednesday 25 April 2007, 10:08

I was part of a ski resort management team. Last year, I was told to be too dangerous on slope by a patrol. The patrol wanted my ski pass and started to shout "Go home freaky carvers, you should be eradicated". Then I give them my skipass, and they became very confused ! They recognise me as one of their new manager. A teacher told them that I use all the slope and he can't go straight down with his kids and became upset !
We know that's there's problem but we can't solve it with a magic wand.

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István
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Post by István » Wednesday 25 April 2007, 12:51

I hope you fired the bastard.... ;-)

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Post by Gunnar » Wednesday 25 April 2007, 13:37

:lol: May I guess: The ski teacher was a young, veeery cute, expert snow plower.
And the Patrolers where of the kind that skis with their buttocks squeeeezed veeery tight together, yez. And one of them, he was deeeply in love with the ski teacher, and wanted to make biiig impress on him/here....

To be serious, I think the problem could be due to following:
On roads, there are certain speed limits, and very specific rules to follow. The Police have very effective equipment to measure speed. And warm, comfortable and fast cars, to do surveillance and pursuits with. And they also have the authority to penalize those who put other people’s life in danger. And that in more efficient ways then removing a skipass. Which can be replaced by the offender immediately, and with out any problem. But fatal road accidents occur anyway.
No Skipatrol that I know of have any of that, But we are also supposed to act as ambulance/ mountain rescue medics and road workers...
I know that there are ski areas that have specific slopes that are only open for riders who are doing carved turns. Maybe that’s a god solution. Anyone who knows how that works?

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Post by Jonsi » Friday 27 April 2007, 16:41

I see that problem is the same all over Europe.

There will always be accidents on the slopes, just like they are on the street.

On slopes there are FIS rules to be followed and if you have an acciedent at least you are not the one who couse it. (Injuryes are another story ...)

I allways check and wait for a clen track and I bought a helmet and back portector.

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Post by domsch » Friday 27 April 2007, 22:25

i would vote for skiing test for everyone :D


i have when you have children on a red marked slope and they can't really ski properly. You should have clear areas for every level and no other people are allowed here.

This year i was almost beaten by some skiing freak..... a daddy of his girl want to tell me that i almost overrun her.... but in fact there were 1-2 m between us and she came from behind.... anyway when he told me that my I shouldn't care like this with my freestyle ( 8O ) i needed to calm him down and make situation clear :twisted:

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Post by Gunnar » Monday 30 April 2007, 8:31

I'm on a mission!
Yesterday was my first day patrolling on snowboard! (On my Burton Factory Prime 8,7m radius slalomboard) :D
I carry Skiboards (Salomon Snowblades) on my backpack, to be able to maneuver the rescue sleds.
My co workers are not convinced i should do this. But i hope i can convince my boss to let me continue patrolling on snowboard next winter. At least at night skiing, when we don't have to do any out of bounds/ avalanche rescue.
I really hope I can continue carving at work. First of all its fun! But i also think skiers will respect my (our!) way of riding more when I'm in my patrol uniform.
I'm not sure if i ever will be so "stable" at doing EC so i can do 100% laydowns safely at work. I think I will go for a very narrow board to work on instead. Like a Virus or similar, that have better edge grip/control, and tighter turning radius......

/Gunnar

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Post by x-eff » Monday 30 April 2007, 10:16

Go for something similar, not virus...
Dré dans l'pentu !!

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