Patrice, what readily available boards do you recommend?
We cannot get the old Wild Duck here in Canada. Wish we could
though. I am currently using a 167 Prior 4WD with 10.5 m sidecut,
24cm waist. I am about your size and weight. I need more effective
edge and perhaps a larger radius.
Have you ridden any new boards lately that have the right flex?
Thanks,
Stan
ps. your stance angles really worked for me!
Board recommendation?
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Hi Stan,
Patrice asked me to answer for him, because he is on holiday without any internet connexion.
I think the shape of your Prior is not so bad and will allow you to progress. We haven't tried any other board that would be better for extreme carving (except ours of course...).
If someone has an idea...
What do you think of making a small production of our boards?
Carve low
Jacques
Patrice asked me to answer for him, because he is on holiday without any internet connexion.
I think the shape of your Prior is not so bad and will allow you to progress. We haven't tried any other board that would be better for extreme carving (except ours of course...).
If someone has an idea...
What do you think of making a small production of our boards?
Carve low
Jacques
If we get enough people, we can finance a limited production run. Anyone out there interested? I am.
The required board doesn't seem to be made by a manufacturer working today. Racing boards are too narrow. The all-mountain style boards (Prior and Coiler) don't have enough effective edge and the wrong flex.
Anybody else out there interested in a board that will allow fully laid out carves?
I am. I'd like an extreme carving board.
The required board doesn't seem to be made by a manufacturer working today. Racing boards are too narrow. The all-mountain style boards (Prior and Coiler) don't have enough effective edge and the wrong flex.
Anybody else out there interested in a board that will allow fully laid out carves?
I am. I'd like an extreme carving board.
Board recommendation?
Jacques,
I’d also like to add my name to the Canadian contingent interested in one of your boards - providing it doesn’t cost an arm and a leg
By the looks of things you guys are on to something with your specs.
Dave S.
I’d also like to add my name to the Canadian contingent interested in one of your boards - providing it doesn’t cost an arm and a leg
By the looks of things you guys are on to something with your specs.
Dave S.
Think again about Coiler. The web site only just barely mentions this, but they will build a custom board for you. There's many options for length, and the width, sidecut, torsion and lengthwise flex can be all adjusted to suit your preference. I got a board from Coiler earlier this year, it came out of the All-Mountain 169 mold but has a slightly taller nose and tail (5cm/3cm) so it's 174cm long, and it has a 21cm waist, 13m sidecut, and $447 USD price tag (shipped!). This might not be Jacques & Patrice's ideal board, but it is mine. That's the nice thing about custom boards.
I'm pretty sure you can pick any shape out of the Coiler catalog and get it with whatever flex you want at no extra charge. It's my understanding that they build everything to-order, and they always ask your weight when you order. Don't take my word for it though, ask Coiler to be sure. I think Prior and Donek may also do that but again, ask them yourself, I can't speak for any of these companies.
There's a pretty wide range of boards that will "allow" laid out carving, too. I did my first linked hip-dragging carves on a 170cm x 23cm twin-tip with a 10m sidecut radius (45/40 stance angles), and there's plenty of people out there carving low on boards under 20cm wide. Technique and practice were the key things for me, the new board I mentioned above was just a bonus.
I'm pretty sure you can pick any shape out of the Coiler catalog and get it with whatever flex you want at no extra charge. It's my understanding that they build everything to-order, and they always ask your weight when you order. Don't take my word for it though, ask Coiler to be sure. I think Prior and Donek may also do that but again, ask them yourself, I can't speak for any of these companies.
There's a pretty wide range of boards that will "allow" laid out carving, too. I did my first linked hip-dragging carves on a 170cm x 23cm twin-tip with a 10m sidecut radius (45/40 stance angles), and there's plenty of people out there carving low on boards under 20cm wide. Technique and practice were the key things for me, the new board I mentioned above was just a bonus.
Hip Dragging turns
Nate,
It's good to know that you're linking hip dragging turns. I'm interested in hearing how you feel about your Coiler's effective edge and flex. Does the board work for you when you're laying out a series of carved turns?
I certainly like Canada's custom board manfacturer's, Coiler and Prior, but I guess I am curious about what kind of board flex works best for linked laid out turns. It's pretty tough to talk about flex when dialing up a custom board. ie I want it stiff. Sure. I want it flexy. Okay, what do you weigh?
Incidently, and this does not refer to you Nate, I think a lot of people who are used to a race style fail to realize the nuances in binding angles, boots, and board dimensions required to link laid out turns like Patrice and Jacques. Just because a person can do a couple of laid out turns doesn't mean their settings and equipment are ideal. High angles and narrow boards, for example, don't necessarily work for this technique if it is to be performed on a consistent basis.
A good rider can do all kinds of turns with all kinds of equipment and settings. But often the best riders are the worst teachers. They do it by feel and talent. That's why I like this site, because it focusses on one specific technique, and has the video to back up its claims.
I suppose I am specifically interested in performing like Jacques and Patrice on certain days, and I want to learn as much as I can about how to perform laid out turns on a consistent basis. That's why it's good to hear from someone like you.
Your custom Coiler board sounds excellent, and I am sure everyone is curious to how it performs in this application.
It's good to know that you're linking hip dragging turns. I'm interested in hearing how you feel about your Coiler's effective edge and flex. Does the board work for you when you're laying out a series of carved turns?
I certainly like Canada's custom board manfacturer's, Coiler and Prior, but I guess I am curious about what kind of board flex works best for linked laid out turns. It's pretty tough to talk about flex when dialing up a custom board. ie I want it stiff. Sure. I want it flexy. Okay, what do you weigh?
Incidently, and this does not refer to you Nate, I think a lot of people who are used to a race style fail to realize the nuances in binding angles, boots, and board dimensions required to link laid out turns like Patrice and Jacques. Just because a person can do a couple of laid out turns doesn't mean their settings and equipment are ideal. High angles and narrow boards, for example, don't necessarily work for this technique if it is to be performed on a consistent basis.
A good rider can do all kinds of turns with all kinds of equipment and settings. But often the best riders are the worst teachers. They do it by feel and talent. That's why I like this site, because it focusses on one specific technique, and has the video to back up its claims.
I suppose I am specifically interested in performing like Jacques and Patrice on certain days, and I want to learn as much as I can about how to perform laid out turns on a consistent basis. That's why it's good to hear from someone like you.
Your custom Coiler board sounds excellent, and I am sure everyone is curious to how it performs in this application.
Low Rider for Life
www.stanchung.com
www.stanchung.com
Effective edge is 145cm. Seems to be enough for me, but I haven't tried anything longer so I can't say how it compares to the 150 or 155cm that Patrice and Jacques are using. I'm pondering a board from Coiler's 177 All Mountain mold for next year, but that's out of curiousity, not because I think I really NEED something longer.
The board works fine for laid-out carving. I asked a bunch of questions at the bomberonline forum before I got this board, and got a lot of input (a short talk with Patrice led to the 13m sidecut, as a matter of fact), and I'm very happy with the results. I'm not carving at the level of Jacques and Patrice, but I'm pretty sure the difference is more a matter of practice than equipment. The board can do more, I just need more practice with it. Right now I need well-groomed snow and the steeper the better. I hope to be able to cope better with choppy snow and less steep slopes, but I'm not there yet.
Bruce (the main guy at Coiler) has a measurement system for the lengthwise flex (mine scores an 8.3 on his scale, for whatever that's worth), and in addition to your weight he'll want to know what style of riding you have in mind. He can also vary the torsional flex independently of the lengthwise flex, and again he'll talk it about with you if you like. He's got a torsional flex lamination technique he calls 'Torsion Plus' that costs a bit extra, but he actually recommended against that option for a board whose mission was laid out carving. Maybe he subscribes to a different school of thought than Jacques and Patrice, or maybe there is such thing as too much torsional stiffness... I don't know, but I took his word for it. I got "extra" torsional stiffness (hard to quantify...), but not the 'Torsion Plus' lamination option. In skidding turns, I can feel the whole edge working for me, it was difficult at first to skid off just a little bit of speed - it was more like stomping on the brakes every time I put the board sideways and gave it a tiny bit of edge pressure. I figure torsional stiffness is the main reason for that quirk. I got accustomed to it after a couple days though, now I don't even notice it.
It is a shame that there are not standard measurement systems for lengthwise and torsional flex the way there are for length and sidecut. At the bomberonline forum a few people came up with an interesting measurement system for lengthwise flex, you might find it interesting reading...
http://www.bomberonline.com/Forums/Thre ... e_ID=16052&_
On the one hand, I agree that racing and carving are two different worlds, but on the other hand I also have a hunch that there's plenty of room here for personal preferences. My carving took a leap forward this year when I started keeping my 'rear' hand forward, even reaching toward the nose of the board. This runs counter to the technique described on this site, because it rotates the upper body more in line with the length of the board rather than the stance, but I definitely ride better that way - I can carve lower and I'm less likely to fall. Still, I have been experimenting with the 'stance-aligned' technique lately, since it obviously works so well for them.
The board works fine for laid-out carving. I asked a bunch of questions at the bomberonline forum before I got this board, and got a lot of input (a short talk with Patrice led to the 13m sidecut, as a matter of fact), and I'm very happy with the results. I'm not carving at the level of Jacques and Patrice, but I'm pretty sure the difference is more a matter of practice than equipment. The board can do more, I just need more practice with it. Right now I need well-groomed snow and the steeper the better. I hope to be able to cope better with choppy snow and less steep slopes, but I'm not there yet.
Bruce (the main guy at Coiler) has a measurement system for the lengthwise flex (mine scores an 8.3 on his scale, for whatever that's worth), and in addition to your weight he'll want to know what style of riding you have in mind. He can also vary the torsional flex independently of the lengthwise flex, and again he'll talk it about with you if you like. He's got a torsional flex lamination technique he calls 'Torsion Plus' that costs a bit extra, but he actually recommended against that option for a board whose mission was laid out carving. Maybe he subscribes to a different school of thought than Jacques and Patrice, or maybe there is such thing as too much torsional stiffness... I don't know, but I took his word for it. I got "extra" torsional stiffness (hard to quantify...), but not the 'Torsion Plus' lamination option. In skidding turns, I can feel the whole edge working for me, it was difficult at first to skid off just a little bit of speed - it was more like stomping on the brakes every time I put the board sideways and gave it a tiny bit of edge pressure. I figure torsional stiffness is the main reason for that quirk. I got accustomed to it after a couple days though, now I don't even notice it.
It is a shame that there are not standard measurement systems for lengthwise and torsional flex the way there are for length and sidecut. At the bomberonline forum a few people came up with an interesting measurement system for lengthwise flex, you might find it interesting reading...
http://www.bomberonline.com/Forums/Thre ... e_ID=16052&_
On the one hand, I agree that racing and carving are two different worlds, but on the other hand I also have a hunch that there's plenty of room here for personal preferences. My carving took a leap forward this year when I started keeping my 'rear' hand forward, even reaching toward the nose of the board. This runs counter to the technique described on this site, because it rotates the upper body more in line with the length of the board rather than the stance, but I definitely ride better that way - I can carve lower and I'm less likely to fall. Still, I have been experimenting with the 'stance-aligned' technique lately, since it obviously works so well for them.
Thanks Nate
Great, detailed response. It tells me a lot about Bruce's level of board making.
I think I have to try a board with 150-155 effective edge with no other variables in order to experiment. The only problem is that my longer
race boards have a different flex than my all-mountain board.
I am guessing that the all mountain Coiler with a square tail and torsional stiffness might be worth trying as an "E-board." I wonder if that is a possibility?
This weekend I will set up two boards with same angles, etc. But one board (4WD) will have 142 effective edge, the other (Burton) will have 155. I'll try to lay it out and see if I am competetent enough to make a judgement. Sure with varying radius and stiffness, it's not perfect, but hey, it's all fun isn't it? Apparently, it's going to snow like crazy this weekend. I'll probably end up backing off the stance and having a powder day. Oh, well. Somebody's gotten to ride the stuff.
I think I have to try a board with 150-155 effective edge with no other variables in order to experiment. The only problem is that my longer
race boards have a different flex than my all-mountain board.
I am guessing that the all mountain Coiler with a square tail and torsional stiffness might be worth trying as an "E-board." I wonder if that is a possibility?
This weekend I will set up two boards with same angles, etc. But one board (4WD) will have 142 effective edge, the other (Burton) will have 155. I'll try to lay it out and see if I am competetent enough to make a judgement. Sure with varying radius and stiffness, it's not perfect, but hey, it's all fun isn't it? Apparently, it's going to snow like crazy this weekend. I'll probably end up backing off the stance and having a powder day. Oh, well. Somebody's gotten to ride the stuff.
Low Rider for Life
www.stanchung.com
www.stanchung.com
I'm pretty sure Coiler will make any of their boards with whatever stiffness you want. If you want to get something like Jacques and Patrice are riding, it probably makes more sense to start with one of Coiler's race boards. Their "all mountain" boards have taller noses and tails, which is why their 169 has 5cm less effective edge than Patrice's 168. If you get something from one of their 'pure race' molds you can probably get the long effective edge (short nose and tail) that you want.
I'm pretty sure that the sidecut radius is a much more significant factor than the edge length. When it comes to mathematical analysis of the turn radius, edge angle, speed, centrifugal force, etc, edge length doesn't even enter into the picture, but sidecut changes everything. Either way, you're right, it is all fun.
If those boards have different waist widths, keep in mind the relationship between the stance angles and waist width... Higher angles on a wider board requires more strength to get the board on edge; lower angles on a narrower board gives you better leverage, so everything takes less effort. Back when I was riding 45/30 angles, going from a 25cm waist to a 23cm waist was like night and day, even though the length and sidecut were the same.
I'm pretty sure that the sidecut radius is a much more significant factor than the edge length. When it comes to mathematical analysis of the turn radius, edge angle, speed, centrifugal force, etc, edge length doesn't even enter into the picture, but sidecut changes everything. Either way, you're right, it is all fun.
If those boards have different waist widths, keep in mind the relationship between the stance angles and waist width... Higher angles on a wider board requires more strength to get the board on edge; lower angles on a narrower board gives you better leverage, so everything takes less effort. Back when I was riding 45/30 angles, going from a 25cm waist to a 23cm waist was like night and day, even though the length and sidecut were the same.
