Question about Russian EC style

[Fotisa2006]

I ve noticed on videos that the russians do not actually do push and pulls . They fall from upright position . Is this because of bigger boards ?

[christian61]

A longer effective edge gives you more stablility in the turns.
Unfortunately, however, a longer board will not automatically enable you to master "Russian turns", which are, in my opinion, more difficult and more dangerous for your shoulder joints than "normal" EC turns.

As with every other riding style, it is a matter of technique and timing.
If you watch the Opus 1-4 videos, you will see that the Swoard team riders can do turns without much push-pull as well.

"Russian style" may look elegant, but it's much too risky, at least for an old guy like me.

[joel]

Russian style only works on blue slopes, perfectly flat and with high speeds....

Original EC Technique turns (not necessary fully laid ones) gives you speed control on black slopes, even bumpy ones, at any speed.... But of course, avoid to try to lay down when it's too bumpy

[fivat]

It's a big country and there are various groups there. The riders from St-Petersburg are different from Moscow and the other towns. So saying "Russian" means nothing (it sounds a bit patriotic actually). And the riders there do not all carve the same way of course.

Mainly from 2008 to 2011, groups of 30-40 Russian riders came to our ExtremeCarving Sessions in Switzerland. I remember the many pictures they wanted to make with Jacques and me, the EC-founders, and the snowboards to dedicate with a marker. Some of them became good friends. Some even helped by giving lessons in Russian to other participants of the ECS.

As a passionate snowboarder, I took my personal time outside the events to teach some of them, even during the Christmas holidays. Some riders had well understood our ride technique, which we developed from surfing and skateboarding, on the basis of our knowledge from Swiss Snowboard School (Jacques was one of the very first instructor, then me in Switzerland and France). But some riders have not understood deeply, and have since then returned to what we saw already in the nineties: riding by tilting the body left/right, letting the sidecut make the job while the chest is facing the tip of the board all the time (like swkal style). No push-pull. This is the risk on blue slopes and with some types of snowboards which are not like the Swoard, made to really close the turns in the steep and lay down fully if you want.

With a surf (on water), you can't cheat: you have to drive (lead) the board properly by rotation. The "push-pull" (as named by Jacques) gives in addition some fluidity: riding like a snake. Note that this works great in deep powder, in the moguls too, and gives better control in the fog (bad visibility). By the way, it's a pity that many alpine riders are bad offpiste or never use softboots: they miss essential things and experience.

Nowadays I see more softboots riders closer to our spirit and philosophy. The stiff hardboots (no flex in the ankles), the stiff bindings (no lareral freedom) and heavy specific boards with plate (to compensate the problems of board and setup) are some reasons to see the agony of alpine snowboarding. Yes: agony.

@Fotis; Look at these Russian softboots riders, who also came to our events and are close to our original spirit:
https://www.funcarve.com/

So, it is nonsense to make generalizations and to use nationalist denominations. Wars are often coming from the nationalisms and the egos.

Patrice Fivat

[Fotisa2006]

You are absolutely right about nationalism. My personal beliefs are totally different from nationalism , patriotism and all these meanings that make people enemies .
I didn't mean of course to generalise or offend anyone but I had the thought that the snowboard schools in Russia had developed another way of extreme carving without using push and pull technique as many riders seen on some videos .
But as you said it's a huge country , many different schools, many different styles , many different riders .

[fivat]

You didn't generalize, you are just victim of people who want to make generalizations.
The riders at Funcarve have a good spirit and are not playing on patriotism.

Did you know that we organized, with another Russian group, a session of the Swoard Demo Tour 2011 in Ezhovaya (Oural, Russia)? See this poster. And you can watch this video:



Some Russian groups have met thanks to Swoard. Actually, we are directly and indirectly at the origin of various communities. It's cool to promote alpine snowboarding because this sport was dying in 2000. Is the situation better now? This could make another thread.

The technique and the style are deeply influenced by the gear and the terrain.

• Using super stiff hardboots (in the ankles), as you can see in some recent videos around, prevents the "push-pull".
• Using narrow boards (and thus higher bindings angles) prevents proper chest rotation.
• Using boards which are not original EC boards like the Swoard (but copy attempts by brands that jus want to make money) doesn't permit to close the turns properly, especially in the steep.
• Using stiff bindings laterally prevents good fluidity (you need some freedom to position your body over the board without too direct response).
• Finally, riding not steep slopes favours a type of snowboards that makes the riders lazy, because you can turn just by tilting the body right/left and let the sidecut make the job.

@Fotis: What you call "another way of extremecarving" is no more EC along to the definition which we gave to this word when we created it to introduce our ride technique (read this in the FAQ). For me it's a regression (not a development) to what we saw in the nineties, with the difference that the boards are now more stable with a better grip. You can also call this "skwal style", or worse: "ski style".
Our word "extreme carving" is now overused, even by riders who discover standard carving. I understand their enthusiasm, but vocabulary is not adequate.

With softboots, soft bindings and a freeride/freecarve board, the gear problems mentioned above cannot happen. This may explain the paradox that nowadays we see sofboots riders with a better style than many alpine riders. The weak point of softboots is the backside turn, but we are at a turning point where we manage to make fully laid backside turns with softboots (positive angles are required). See for example Taro here with the Dual2. See also Xavier here who is carving in the steep with the new Stoke (though this model is primarily a powder board).

Now there is a trend worldwide for carving with softboots. We see the word "carving" back in the catalogues, what makes us happy. With the model Dual, we were in 2008 probably the only brand (with the brand Dupraz) that was believing in carving with softboots.

Sooner or later, a nationalist or a troll will come here to post his propaganda. Thus I close this thread to prevent flame wars. There are enough other groups and bubbles over Internet for self-promotion, denigration or disinformation.
Here we want only good vibes. This Forum will have its 20th anniversary on 21st March 2022!

Patrice Fivat