Surfing

[eltrut]

I have heard other posts on other sites describe carving as being similar to surfing. Now, I have not surfed but am beginning to learn to carve (or at least I was trying at the end of last season.) I have enjoyed reading the description of the EC technique on this site. So, would anyone like to clue in a newbie about the nuances of the differences or similarities between the EC technique and the surfing technique on snow? Is the push-pull technique the common thread?

Many thanks and great site.

Eltrut

[A carver from Holland]

Hi Eltrut,

Since i am also a surfer i can explain you the difference between the snowboard and surf technique.
With snowboarding, you use your front foot (besides the rotation of your upper body) to initiate the turn. In surfing this is down with the rear foot, which is also called the power foot. Summarizing: with snowboarding you lean towards the nose of your board when initiating a turn, with surfing to the tail of your board (since that's where the fins are). The rotation of the body is the same, except with surfing the rotation is more extreme than with snowboarding.

I hope this explanation helps?!

Regards,

Arjan

[rcrobar]

Hi Eltrut

I would like to add to Arjan’s great explanation, particularly the upper body rotation reference.

ONE of the main “common threads” or links between surfing and the push-pull is how the upper body initiates and/or leads the turn ... and a moment later the lower body follows.

CONFUSION

I have found that “newbees” get confused, with regards to “technique,” (push-pull) when watching hardbooters carve on TV or a video. This is because of the TWO distinctly different techniques or styles often used by hardbooters.

Try this:

Imagine the letter “T” painted on the chest of a surfer or a snowboarder (from belly button to neck and from shoulder to shoulder). Imagine the painted “T” while watching the instructional videos’ made by J&P. Imagine the “T” while watching a racer fly down the hill. Try to imagine you are at the bottom of the hill watching these snowboarder going towards you.

While watching hardbooters in a variety of videos, continue to watch the “T” created by the shoulders. Try to recognize and understand the difference between the following two styles, this should help you to further understand the similarities and differences between surfing and the push pull turns.

Rotation

Rotation turns or Push-Pull (Swiss): requires (demands) that the upper body rotates or leads the turn while the lower body follows.
The “T” on the chest is visible only part of the time, as the body rotates the “T” turns sideways.
(These points have been very oversimplified.)


Counter Rotation

Counter Rotation turns (French): the upper body DOES NOT move, it remains static while the lower body does the turning.
Riders of this style try very hard to keep their shoulders level and square to the fall line at all times. Ideally the “T” on the chest is visible at all times.
(These points have also been very oversimplified.)

I also hope this helps the newbee.
Rob

PS - Can any of the snowboard instructors out help the newbee with this explaination?

Check this out
http://club-ski.web.cern.ch/club-ski/sn ... swiss.html

[pete]

Rob, i'm not the specialist, but i think the analogy with the T is really good! Is it yours? if yes... J&p will have tu use it again cuz that's pretty explicit!
I'd say that the T tends to become a l w/ rotation...

[rilliet]

Excellent explanation Rob

[Rod Sherwood]

I'm a surfer and I use a technique for carving on piste which is completely different to anything I've seen anyone else doing during my past 5 seasons. I adapted it from my surfing style which has been built on a distinct preference of surfing long point breaks. Basically I concentrate on staying really crounched to retain a low centre of gravity and simply lean heel/toe/heel with very little rotation of both shoulders or hips. I use a binding set up of 5 degrees on the back foor and 10 degrees on the front foot. Visually and sensation wise, I think the key difference to the movie preview sequences is that you transition through a crouch during the move from backside to frontside such that your head stays just under a metre off the ground instead of jumping from turn to turn (though I admit I'm not as tall as Jacques). On backside you can't get as low as the blokes on the movie because the spoiler pops you out of the turns, frontside is the same. I love doing it but the only blokes I've been able to relate this to are good surfers.

[nils]

jacques just told me about your meeting there at SF
i'm also a surfer ( bit rusty for now) and also a fan of long point breaks... I prefer clean straight lines, powerfull bottom turns followed by building speed down the line rather than slashing the baby using counter rotations.. I have adopted the EC technique recently when i met Jacques and Patrice, and have to admit it suits my surfing preferences best.. drawing clean lines with a huge economy of movements: aka> trying to approach what i call style and purity...

You 're right when you say the EC technique shows a "crouched" period between turns, but beeing as tall as jacques, i can tell you its better to be low rather than having to get your head down from 6 feet +....also due to the speed and quickness required when doing fast EC, you barely have the time to stand up again !...

This said, the feedback from Jacques day is awsome, meaning we'll all get to do the same in a near future ... shhhhh
Nils

[audacium]

Hey Rob and all,


now that was a pretty clear and concise explanation!
But still I have a question when reading this description: To me, how you "initiate" a board rotation (upper bode or lower body) and how you "enter" a turn (push-pull or pull-push) are two separate things. That is, I can very well do the rotation turn with pull-push technique instead of push-pull. (I am not saying this would be suitable for extreme carving.) You agree, or did I get something wrong?
Thanks in advance.


Eduard.


By the way: Anyone around Munich reading this: I am going to the Pitztal glacier on sunday with some friends, if someone wants to join let me know

[eltrut]

Thanks so much for taking time to answer. Arjan, your comments made sense.

I would be interested in the stance position of other surfers. Rod mentioned that he uses about a 10-5 F-R binding position. What is the usual stance on surf boards? Square, duck, forward facing, or at an angle on the surf boards? What stance do they use on their snowboards?

Rob: You are getting better at your explanations about the technique.

Also, there is surfing in and close to Ohio.
Click here


eltrut

aka d. bartz

[Rod Sherwood]

G'Day Eltrut, Most blokes are pretty relaxed about precisely how they stand because its driven purely by what you want to do with the wave you're on with the particular board you're on. Surfing 2 to 4 foot slop I tend to have my back foot about 10 to 30 cm from the tail and front foot bang in the middle of the board, riding a 6'2". In 6 to 10 foot point breaks I tend to be on my 6'10" and looking for tubes so its a little more forward. The waves themselves determine it as well, surfing onshore 2 ft slop is completely different to 25 foot onshore Margaret River. When in Australia I tended to have 3 or 4 boards in the quiver. Since I've been living here in Switzerland I've cut it down to 2. The waves in the link look cold, go to www.surfermag.com for something more enticing and look at where the people have their feet...it'll tell you more than I ever can. By the way: I like Occy's style and video footage of Tom Curren at JBay or in Indo will illustrate where I get my preferred carving style from. Rod.