Responsibilities and rights when carving

[gdboytyler]

I agree that the carver has the right of way, when making wide turns and the person that is overtaking should give way to the carver.

I think it's analagous to the pedestrian crossing the street. The pedestrian has the right of way, but you still get hurt if the car doesn't stop.

So when the slopes get busy, I stop making wide turns. If it gets too busy, I put on my freestyle board and go to the snowboard park and half pipe. Or I'll get my O-Sin 4807 and ride off-piste.

[Chris Houghton]

I also have been hit from behind a few times. But the funniest incident was only a close call. I was getting ready to pass a skier, waited until he started going right, then I moved to pass him on the left. He instantly hockey-stopped, facing left, in the middle of the trail. I passed over the tips of his skis so close I could smell the beer on his breath, but managed to miss him. He waited until we were in the lift line and then started telling me in a very loud voice that the close call was all my fault, watch out, blah blah, forgetting about HIS duty to not obstruct a trail. I just agreed with him, and said next time we meet I will put up my elbow as I go by. Funny, I never saw him again. Maybe he went for more beer.

[Dave]

Some things about the rule "when you come from up the hill"
1. Someone who come from up the hill, has a better possition for an accident!
I explain: when you are carving, you don't see what is comming from up the mountain, so when a skieër or other snowboarder hits you, you are not ready for that!
You have all the rights, but if someone is hurts, it will be you

2. On small slopes
Sometimes, you have small slopes that is one pistebully wide.
A skieër who wants to go slow, sets his skies in a V-position and slows down verry fast! When you are behind him, it's verry difficult to avoid him!
And if you hit him, it's you fault

Something about these small skies:
What's the deal with that???They make don't propper turns, don't have sticks move in ANY direction!!!!! For me, the can ban them from the slopes (sorry, personal opinion)


But as said, give each other enough space!

There is already enough war, if we can't keep peace on the slopes, where else?

Dave

[raphael]

2. On small slopes
Sometimes, you have small slopes that is one pistebully wide.
A skieër who wants to go slow, sets his skies in a V-position and slows down verry fast! When you are behind him, it's verry difficult to avoid him!
And if you hit him, it's you fault

This happens to me pretty often.
I don't see any option but avoid such narrow roads, because you can't be sure you're alone.

[harald]

Hi,
This is an interesting and important discussion. I think the rules are clear. The one that is coming from behind is responsible and has to back off whatsoever, meaning that as long as you are freeriding on skis or boards you cannot go as fast as you want at any time, for example as in GS, superG or downhill. If you want to do so, you should run in a closed course or training area. This means that when you come from behind and want to overtake a skier or boarder more downhill, brake the speed, watch carefully what the other is doing before you continue. The problem is that many skiers or boarders do no know this rule, and many are overestimating their riding abilities. Unfortunately, I have witnessed and heard of some really nasty accidents with death as the result with skiers (and snowboarders), both experts and novices, involved coming from behind and running into people in front of them. For example a former Norwegian ski champion died last year after having hit a snowboarder in front of him.
However, as both a carving skier and snowboarder I know of the dangers and do not trust others to know the rules or to be careful. I have also learned to always expect the unexpected and always be prepared for people lying behind bumps or making sudden changes of direction. Therefore, I can wait for long time, especially when carving on snowboard before going. Admittedly, this is taking some of the pleasure out of this sport. If it is too crowded I either go home or take the skis, since EC and carving needs more space than skiing.
Regards,

[Rietzschel]

Hey Guys,

I fully agree with Harald.

Therefore, I can wait for long time, especially when carving on snowboard before going.

For me qualitytime matters.

Greetz Guido

[Jokke]

Hello guys, I`m currently recovering from a pretty nasty collision with a skier who slammed me behind
Those who knows me know that I`m EXTRA carefully doing my runs and still got runned over.
Well I`m still lucky because I only broke my collarbone, right arm and 2 ribs.
The thing who saved me from very serious injuries was full scale bodyarmour made by Dainese. So I strongly recommend to use at least back protector, it wont keep you away from skiers, but may save your life

Have nice summer and be focused to next season, I`ll be back

[pokkis]

Just one thing here, this could have been really serious accident but helmet and body armour saved from more worse things here.
Jokke is not mentioning helmet in his comments as he, as all carving Finns, keep helmet as more or less mandatory/automatic thing when diging trenches seriously.
So take helmet allways and think seriously for body armour or at least for back protector.

[nils]

Jokke
All wishes for quick recovery!
i hope the damn skier at least stopped!
I'm considering to get a Dainese protection next season, but i'm not sure which models are good for carving / freeride, or both.
Maybe would be a good subject for a topic!

Nils

[harald]

Jokke,
The Norwegian gentlemen (?) team wish you all the best and a quick recovery.We hope to see you bak on snow in excellent shape next season.

[Jakob]

I give you 10 Fis rules in picture and word. It's in Slovenian and english and are drawn by Miki Muster, who draws brilliant comics, unfortunately I do not know, whether they are available in any foreign language...

Howeve, here it is:

http://www.slovenija-ski.net/dokumenti/ ... ravila.pdf


Bye,

Jakob

[Rob Stevens]

Hi Y'all;
I agree with the riders on this forum who are insistent that the uphill rider/skier is responsible to avoid collisions with people downslope, but hardboot carving (and snowboarding in general) has potential to make this a point for argument.
Only one rider in the forum talked about the "wierd" trajectory the alpine board can create. NOBODY monopolizes a slope the way a hardboot rider does. At one moment the uphill person sees you at the edge of the groomed slope and the next split second, you're right in front of them. The line created by our ability to edge at 90 degrees and pressure one edge with all available body weight plus centrifugal force creates more motion across the fall line than most people are used to.
It simply catches them by surprise.
I think if more people rode around on alpine gear, resorts would either ban it (like building jumps anywhere you want), or limit use to certain slopes (just like terrain parks).
Lets talk about the technical aspect for a moment: I see many riders always looking straight down the fall line. This happens even when the rider is going across the fall line.
Why not look where you're going?
If you start a heel turn with a head turn, no one will suprise you with an accidental rear entry. On the toeside the issue is alignment. Looking down the hill while the board goes across the hill creates counter-rotation.
Sweeping your vision from side-to-side not only increases your safety and can imprive alignment (and style), but also helps with speed control as your turns are finished more comepletely. Did you ever have the feeling that you just kept going faster and faster with each turn? Try doing this and your speed will be much more constant.
I was training this friend of mine for his Canadian level 4 instructors certification and he kept picking up speed and after 6 or 7 turns found he had to slide to control himself. I told him to "Look at the trees" on both sides of the run as he was exiting the fall line into the traversing part of the turn. On the next pass, his speed was the same from top to bottom and he carved the whole slope. He wasn't doing anything different with his board, it simply came down to where he was focusing.
Lates;
Rob S
Banff, CAN

[harald]

Hi Rob,
Good points

[István]

Rob,

I think it is not about speed. Crashes happen even if you are fully able to control your speed (actually it happens more often in this case, because if you are able to control speed, then all your turns will be properly finished, ie. turned almost uphill resulting in a more dangerous behaviour to get hit).

The issue is (that you also pointed out correctly) that EC-ers suprise skiers with the carves they can do. And skiers are absolutely not used to this, as 99.99% of the boarders on the slopes cannot perform such turns.

Skiers usually recognize that boarders tend to perform unexpected turns, but still within a range that can be handled by them. Now this is where surprise comes into picture: EC-ers can turn much faster without loosing any speed and turning the board practically uphill.

I think this is why most of us spend long minutes sitting in the snow on the top of the hill waiting for the slope to be fully emptied. We all understand that we cannot expect skiers to get used to what we do.

On the other hand there is still an issue. I've seen many ski carvers that found fun in following me. The problem here is that the radiuses of our turns are completely different (a good ski carver has 8.5-9m radius while we are in the range of 13-15m). I got hit several times when the two curves crossed each other after a few turns....

In March the same happened to me in Corvara, although the skier guys have seen me before doing those turns and seemingly understood the physics of the sport, but still one bastard wanted to follow me and finally hit me from behind during a backside turn, twisting my shoulder badly. It still hurts..... so this is my issue

Moral of the story: even if you understand that you have to be the one who pays more attention, even if you only do it on an empty slope, you still can get surprised and hurt....


Kindest,

István

[Rob Stevens]

Late season here in the Rockies is the time to get the EC's done.
We've had mid-winter conditions with the odd spring day and abandoned slopes. After the March holidays are over, everyone goes golfing.
Suckers.
Wide open 'til May 23rd...
Rob S