Your comments on my backside please!

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nicander
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Re: Your comments on my backside please!

Post by nicander » Wednesday 29 March 2017, 8:09

Good comments guys, I want to add a video:



See from 3:50 to 4:30. Now find a similar slope and make a video where you do the same. Then post this video here.

Try to keep the speed at 1 level the whole time.
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nils
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Re: Your comments on my backside please!

Post by nils » Wednesday 29 March 2017, 18:21

Check the vids here
https://www.extremecarving.com/tech/tech.html

Yes it's 2002 / 15 years old, but it's exactly the same thing that helped Jacques and Patrice spread the technique Velvet is using (remember the Russians learned from first Opus videos, from Web pages https://www.extremecarving.com and at Swoard ECS 2008-2010).

Another trick is try not to move the arms at all (keep them crossed for training).

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Re: Your comments on my backside please!

Post by slayer » Friday 31 March 2017, 2:13

Hi Wouter,

I am probably not qualified to give advice, being a beginner myself. And yeah, backside turn is still my nemesis, so I feel your pain, and which is why I feel compelled to post. it is fortunate you have someone to document your progress, as someone already said, what you *think* you are doing, is nothing like what you are actually do. Especially for backside, where you cant see.

3 things I notice:
1 - see the nice curve behind your board you do on your frontside carve. that same shape, you need to visualise and do on your backside carve. I notice in your earlier videos, you 'swish' your tail when you do your backside turn. i.e., you turn too fast. Incidentally, that swish is something I recognise from old-school British riders who learned on dry-slopes in the UK, it was needed due to the extra friction of the dendix material (we didn't have indoor artificial snow slopes until more recently). So just don't do the backside turn too fast. You latest video fixes that, but you still don't finish your front-side turn ( go uphill more before initiating backside turn, same thing Arnaud told me :-))

2) - see how low you go before your frontside turn (although I think, still a little late for the purists on this forum :)), you are still practically upright when you initiate your backside turn, even on latest video. You are carving the line, but you are still standing up when you start the turn. Which means you cannot lay down before the turn is finished. Again, the same problem I had, which Arnaud also advised me about. Look at 00:48, you are standing up. You should be like 00:23 at that point of the backside turn (my humble beginner opinion).

3) What others have already said, rotation. It is easier to get this right on the front-side, due to the bio-mechanics of your ankle acting as a finely controllable hinge so you don't smack your face into the mountain :)....a bit harder when you are leaning back on a board using basically just your heels to balance things out :-). What Arnaud taught me, which was very useful, was to literally throw your trailing shoulder around slightly in advance of where your board is pointing on the backside turn. You should be able to look up the hill (also useful for safety). This will help pull your board around. The timing of this is tricky, and I still cannot pull this off every time. Also have your trailing hand closer to your body, as its harder to throw your shoulder around if you have it extended outwards. Look at 00:25. If you looked up right there, you could see up the slope. You need to be able to do the same at 00:30.

If I have got this wrong, I am sure (hope!) the more experienced members will correct me. Just thought it would be helpful to have the perspective of a fellow beginner going through the same issues..wish you the best, and hopefully see you on the hill sometime.

Loving your nice wide open untracked pistes!

cheers,
Slayer.
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Wouter
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Your comments on my backside please!

Post by Wouter » Friday 31 March 2017, 10:39

Hi Slayer. Are you calling me a Brexit boarder?? Hahahahahaah.

You don't sound like a beginner at all.

Thanks for the time you've taken to look at my boring videos.

That's really helpful advise. I've read your advise (and others') a number of times.

I'm off to the Sierra Nevada (btw many Brits have found this resort) again this afternoon and will take the first T-bar up t'row at 09.00 to try to put this to work.

Thanks again.


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Re: Your comments on my backside please!

Post by slayer » Sunday 2 April 2017, 11:58

LOL about Brexit, I think it is safe to say no British skier or boarder ever voted for that, since most of our sport is done in Europe! :-)

I want to correct myself about point 2 I wrote above, it seems there are 2 styles?
The one in Petr's videos seems to indicate being more upright going into the turn:
Whereas this video seems to show getting low down, then push out with your legs to accentuate the carve:

So now, I am not sure which technique is the 'proper' one, but I do find it easier to get low down first before initiating the turn. The technique in Petr's video looks more difficult as the timing of the 'fall' looks more critical.

Maybe someone has some good experience to share on this topic.

cheers,
Slayer...
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Re: Your comments on my backside please!

Post by Capykiller » Sunday 2 April 2017, 13:42

I have some experience, because I tried both. As I wrote earlier I tried to get down very deep in the beginning which actually diminishes the fear of falling to hard to the ground. The problem is: once you go down you tend to bend your torso not your legs. Then you have your hips out and you can't do proper rotation.
If you try to get there from normal carves with much rotation you'll gain trust the more you accelerate.
Hard to explain. Watch Petrs Video where he doesn't do the laydowns but only carves. From there it's just a small step down.
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Re: Your comments on my backside please!

Post by tali » Monday 3 April 2017, 3:47

slayer wrote: So now, I am not sure which technique is the 'proper' one.
:idea: Hmmmmm, maybe at 4:48 here:
And here:

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Wouter
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Your comments on my backside please!

Post by Wouter » Monday 3 April 2017, 8:08

Wooow. Thanks. I read yesterday's tips on the chairlift ;) which was nice timing.

I had no wing-(wo)man over the weekend so I unfortunately have no new videos.

However, I followed the numerous suggestions and worked on rotation. Mostly on red slopes rather than black ones. At the end I had the feeling I was turning because of my shoulders rather than steering with my feet. I guess that's a good thing. I'm not there yet but I hope that I book further progress during Eastern.

Thanks again!!!
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Re: Your comments on my backside please!

Post by slayer » Tuesday 4 April 2017, 8:43

Thanks tali and Capykiller,

It's a small step for man, but a giant leap for EC! :-)

I will try this at the weekend. Laax Vorab glacier seems the best place at the moment, as everywhere is melting and slushy. I went to Laax last Saturday, but the glacier was closed due high winds. I did the highest runs I could, but it was still very soft, and i didn't feel the confidence of the edge having a good grip, although I did practice the 'heelside falling down' bit as the soft snow didn't hurt my hip so much :). The problem was, it was 20 mins to cycle around each time.

The previous weekend, I was actually using centrifugal force more rather than bending knees so much, but I found this only only easier on the steeper parts of the run, and then only when it was fairly smooth still. In the afternoon, it was too bumpy.

Anyone know good practice pistes for EC for spring, in Central Switzerland region? I guess Laax and Engelberg? I don't recall what the glacier pistes are like at Engelberg.

cheers,
Slayer.
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