strange backside behaviour

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Simon
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strange backside behaviour

Post by Simon » Friday 14 January 2005, 18:59

Hi

I have a strange beaviour with my swoard 175S on easy carved backside turns. The nose doesn't take the clear turn radius, the curve is overlapped by a snake line. difficult to describe, have a look at the picture.

I never had this phenomena on all my other boards, but on swoard I had it from the beginning.

on frontside the problem doesn't exist and the snake line is lessened on soft snow.

binding: F2 race titanium 53°/48° (better than the intec I had last year)
boot: Indy with modified RAB and softer spring

I hope someone knows what causes the problem
Simon
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frunobulax
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Post by frunobulax » Friday 14 January 2005, 19:13

Don't know if you've changed something with your setup too. I get problems with a clear carving line on BS if I have too little forward lean on my boots. The board tends to be a bit "loose" on BS, changing from oversteer to understeer and back. That is also the reason why I returned to heel lift after having a try without. But that seems to be connected with my personal riding style since I use more forward lean than any other snowboarder I know.

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rilliet
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Post by rilliet » Saturday 15 January 2005, 9:05

Simon,

This is very difficult to answer without seeing you in action. The only thing I can tell you is to put more weight on you front foot during backside turns. Having too much weight on the back foot is a common mistake that prevents the board to make a nice turn.

Come in Zinal and let's see what happens live! :D

Jacques

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Post by Mattias » Tuesday 18 January 2005, 15:46

I´ve had almost exact the same problem (I reffered to it as wobbling board), on different boards. And the problem was that I didn´t put my weight enough forward. So I moved my bindings to the center, was 2 cm back from center. And I also adjusted my stance so that I now bend my frontleg more and my torso is more rotated on my backside turn. So hope this helps :P
Regards
Mattias

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harald
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Post by harald » Wednesday 19 January 2005, 9:08

The line seems like the board is chattering, that is does not make a clean carve. Since Swoard is a very wide board one reason could be that the board is not tilted high enough, that is to little angled towards the snow. Then there is too little pressure on the edges and the board skids and chatter. That was my first exoerience with the Swoard, you have to be quite aggressive in the heel turn, then the board bites and you will have a clean line. The other reason has been given by Mattias and others. Your weight might be too much backwards and inwards. In combination with too little angle on the board, it will chatter. The solution is to tilt the board higher when starting the turn and engage the tip by pressing the knees forward and direct your driving forces through the hips and knees (not the butt hanging out).
harald

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Simon
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Post by Simon » Wednesday 19 January 2005, 19:13

I don't think the board chatters, that happens on higher load and the frequency is faster.

Wobbling is the better expression and I only feel it on easy carved turns with moderate inclination. Making real turns, wobbling isn't a problem, then it sometimes happens, mostly on frontside, that I lose edge and the hole board chatters.

So the guess from harald could be right, that the board is not tilted high enough. But how can I incline the board more in an easy carved turn?

I realised a lessend wobbling by doing a proper body rotation, so more weight comes to the front foot. perhaps I have to do even more rotation.

Thank you for your suggestions, I will go to test this and try to give attention to a proper rotation and enough weight on the front foot.

Simon

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Post by kjl » Saturday 22 January 2005, 2:10

Sometimes I get this shape turn on heelsides as well. Usually the carved line, in addition to being squiggly/wiggly like in your drawing, is also fat and scalloped (it is no longer only 2 inches wide, but oscillates between 2 inches and a foot wide).

For me, I can tell it happens because the front of the board and the back of the board are trying to turn different radius turns, so they start off in the same line, then diverge, and then one side or the other skids and catches up to the other side, and then they diverge again and the cycle repeats.


I think it is because of something PhilW (I think) posted on bomberonline, which is that if you (especially with bent knees), heavily rotate to the heelside edge, AND if your stance angles are relatively flat, the result is that you push the heel of your front foot down and push the toe of your back foot down. With flat angles, this imposes a torsional twist on the board (nose of board inclinates more, and the tail of the board inclinates less). With more advanced angles, the effect is less pronouced, as the heel-toe direction is more in line with the board, and may even help to bend the board longitudinally.


You said this is a new phenomenon with the Swoard. Were your other boards narrower, and therefore were your stance angles more forward on your other boards than on the Swoard?


I don't know what the solution is - maybe I can get some answers, too!

Due to this feeling, if I have very bent knees and rotate heelside, I am forced to put what feels like 75% of my weight on my front foot - otherwise my tail skids out and I do wobbly turns. If I do a more extended turn (attempting to do the EC push-pull turn) with straighter legs, I can put equal weight on both legs. Does anybody have a solution for this?
--



Ken

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Simon
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Post by Simon » Monday 24 January 2005, 19:59

Yes, my other boards are narrower, e.g. F2 Speedster RS 19.5cm (7.7inch) with 65°/60°.

The thing with the torsional twist could be a reason and I even have the feeling, that I don't apply backward pressure equally on both feet. So the nose wants to do a tighter turn than the tail and wobbles. Perhaps a small heel lift or more foreward lean on rear boot would help. I will check this.

The weight distribution is also more equal, if I'm doing EC-turns with stretched legs in the middle of the turn, otherwise I feel something like 60% front on backside and 40% front on frontside.

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Simon
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Post by Simon » Tuesday 1 March 2005, 21:15

The wobbling has gone!

The problem was the binging setup, because on the small boards I don't mount the boots centered on the bindings to lessen the angle. That means the front boot is placed about 10mm out of the center towards the toes and the rear foot towards the heel. This setup imposes a torsional twist on the Swoard and the nose is tilted more than the tail and that causes the wobbling.

If I purposely load the feet different due to provocate a torsional twist, even a Speedster RS does a wobbling backside.

Thanks for the suggestions
Simon

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