At boots and plate bindings? Heel gap issues, sizing issues?

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Mr_Orange
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At boots and plate bindings? Heel gap issues, sizing issues?

Post by Mr_Orange » Sunday 7 December 2014, 3:14

I'm thinking of getting the F2 Carve RS (Size S, mondo 22-26) binding for my new Garmont Megalite (mondo 26). I also have a size 24 too. Going to keep one eventually.

I am getting into touring/splitboarding and there's a small niche of them using hardboots. I asked this on the splitboard forums but the posters here seem to know more about plate bindings.

After a little bit of research, I saw a photo of a ski boot that looks way too small for a bail that got me worried. Is the back heel bail being too loose a common issue?:
http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/a ... 1391209078

Here's another incident of plate binding + ski boot incompatibility issues:
http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/s ... d-bindings

On the other hand, when looking through forums, several people have recommended the use of F2 bindings with AT boots (and even a case of modifying the F2's to go on voile plate).

So, is this going to an issue for me with what the F2 Carve binding I want to get? And also, is the size small appropriate? I noticed that the F2 bindings come in size S, M, L. Does that mean there are small medium and large bails or do the bails stay the same?

I'm open to other options too. The F2 Carve is at a pretty good price. I'm trying to find the binding with most lateral flex. Anyone know how this binding stacks up flex-wise compared to the Ibex / Burton race bindings?

Stack height is another issue I'm thinking about. I have a pretty wide board (265 waist) for my foot size (9). I hear a lot of good things about how the Phantom bindings are so low. However, with my board being so wide, wouldn't a higher binding like the f2 give me the extra leverage for edge to edge control on groomers, making it feel like a narrower sized board? Then with the extra width, i still get the extra flotation benefits in powder. If this makes no sense, then I'm open to the lower height bindings like the ibex, or spark dyno, or firstlight, maybe even phantoms (...so expensive)

To elaborate on my situation: I don't have a splitboard setup yet. I have plans to get into touring in the near future but currently can't afford to get all the stuff needed. I do however need new boots right away since my current soft boots are breaking apart and warping. I figuired id just get the hardboot part of it first since i found the Megalite's at a very good price.

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Re: At boots and plate bindings? Heel gap issues, sizing iss

Post by Arnaud » Monday 8 December 2014, 16:26

Hi Mr_Orange

Using the Carve RS for a splitboard is a good idea. This bindings are light (plastic base) and inexpensive and allow a good lateral flexibility. I use also the Proflex Carve RS with my Dual; it's a good setup for this kind of soft board. Note that this is quite different with alpine gear.

About the bail / boot fitting : it's a common problem. Afaik Carve RS have the same bails as F2 Race so the problem shown on your link should remain.
The F2 lever is well designed and fits to every shape of hardboots. But I can't ensure it will fit perfectly to skitouring boots, which have generally a higher shell in the toe area. I tried on a pair of Scarpa boots, and the lever closes correctly.

The size of F2 bindings (Carve RS / Race Ti) is not given by the bail size but by the position of the mounting holes in the sliders and in the base. Ski touring boots being longer than snowboard hardboots, the M size should be ok for your boot size.

Imho lower bindings, especially on wide board gives more direct edge pressure control and add also a better lateral stability, useful in powder.
Swoard EC Pro2 168H - Swoard EC12 Boots - Gen5 168H - Stoke 162 M

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Re: At boots and plate bindings? Heel gap issues, sizing iss

Post by Mr_Orange » Tuesday 9 December 2014, 5:48

Are these the Proflex carve RS you speak of:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251746652161?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

They might have just named it differently. The proflex's are just the older F2 bindings right? Are there any significant differences in quality and design? Durability?

Do you know anything about this process of adding "lift"/thickness to the soles:


Maybe this is a way to fine tune your boots to fit any sort of binding/bail size. A regular cobbler might even be able to do that. Those were race boots they were workin with in that video though. The bottom of my Garmont Megalites are flat like those are.

Regarding the stack height, i do think lower would be better for powder. A lot of people like that about the Phantom bindings. It's just for groomers, wide board and low bindings makes it a bit clunky edge to edge. Tolerable once you speed up. Just thought adding a bit of height might compensate. I'll just test a few options out. Some of those older bindings are so cheap anyways.

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Re: At boots and plate bindings? Heel gap issues, sizing iss

Post by Arnaud » Tuesday 9 December 2014, 7:19

Yes, proflex are the same as F2. No difference (afaik)
Lift: proflex and F2 bindings allow to add lift under the sliders. No need to mill your boots
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Re: At boots and plate bindings? Heel gap issues, sizing iss

Post by Mr_Orange » Tuesday 9 December 2014, 8:26

Arnaud wrote:Lift: proflex and F2 bindings allow to add lift under the sliders. No need to mill your boots
!!! Does that come with the binding or do you have to get that separately?

There's a bunch of these for sale on ebay. They're all from the same place. I wonder how legit this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Proflex-Freecar ... 3a9d451001

In the description it says "EXTRA THICKNESS 5,5 mm "

Maybe that's the "adding lift under the sliders" you mentioned.

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Re: At boots and plate bindings? Heel gap issues, sizing iss

Post by sorro » Tuesday 9 December 2014, 10:44

Hi Mr_Orange,

I already ordered several proflex bindings from that guy, looks like he is having huge stock... really good for spare pieces for my F2 race titanium.
If I remember, the lifts Arnaud is mentionning are delivered with the bindings, these are brand new bindings, you have everything in the box (screws, pad, Leash,...).

Anyway I can double check tonight, and will let you know.

Mr Brown :wink:

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Re: At boots and plate bindings? Heel gap issues, sizing iss

Post by Mr_Orange » Tuesday 9 December 2014, 12:00

sorro wrote:Hi Mr_Orange,
If I remember, the lifts Arnaud is mentionning are delivered with the bindings, these are brand new bindings, you have everything in the box (screws, pad, Leash,...).

Anyway I can double check tonight, and will let you know.

Mr Brown :wink:
That dude's selling so many. Seemed sort sketchy, but good to hear you've checked those out.

Not sure what boots you use, but the back heel stack height from the base of the sole to the top of the area where the bail hits is 28mm on my Megalites.

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Re: At boots and plate bindings? Heel gap issues, sizing iss

Post by Mr_Orange » Wednesday 17 December 2014, 2:43

Here's another idea. What about putting intec toe bails (the height adjustable ones) on the heel area to address the stack height issue.

They sell them separately on this site:

F2 INTEC Toe Plate Assembly (Medium):
http://www.yyzcanuck.com/store/F2-INTEC ... edium.html

The heel bails looks like they might be a bit taller than the toes though:

F2 Race Heel Plate Complete (Medium, 6mm)
http://www.yyzcanuck.com/store/F2-Race- ... m-6mm.html

Can anyone with the f2 intec toes see if they can fit a heel in there?

And are the proflex and f2's similar enough to where you can put f2 parts on the proflex's?

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Re: At boots and plate bindings? Heel gap issues, sizing iss

Post by sorro » Wednesday 17 December 2014, 9:18

Hi Mr Orange,

As said above, I'm using the proflex bindings as spare pieces for my F2, both are very similar: bails, nuts, trolley,... the main difference is really the base plate.

I checked with my Raichle 324 and they fit perfectly in the Carve RS with no gap.

Hope it helps.
Mr Pink.

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Re: At boots and plate bindings? Heel gap issues, sizing iss

Post by Mr_Orange » Wednesday 17 December 2014, 12:03

sorro wrote:I checked with my Raichle 324 and they fit perfectly in the Carve RS with no gap.
Hey sorro,

Thanks for the feedback on the proflex.

If you don't mind, can you see if the heel stack height (base of sole to top of where the bail hits) on your Raichle 324 is 28 mm? I'm also curious what it is for the front too.

The issue is still the fact that I'm using an AT boot, the garmont megalite and there have been reports of ski/at boots not fitting right with plate bindings. As shown:

Image

I'm sure snowboard specific hard boots like Raichle, deeluxe, and UPZ would have not fit issues with any plate bindings as i heard their heel stack height is generally taller.

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