Technique and Equipment

[utahcarver]

Hi, Guys!

I would like to make a few comments about some of the things I've read here in the forum and on the EC website.

First, I cannot hardly wait to lay down turns at my local ski area like Patrice and Jacques do. I'm mesmerized each time I watch the video of you guys riding. Next, I have gotten a mental picture of many of us who want to EC working late into the night in a workshop or basement modifying equipment. I'm guessing at this point we can't buy all of this equipment down at the local ski and snowboard shop, right? So, this poses a question in my mind: How much of EC is technique and how much is equipment?

This seems to me to be a very important question because, if I cannot easily find the right equipment to modify and use on or off piste, how much (if any) of my technique will make up for this loss? Or how about the other way: What if I had all the right equipment for EC but lacked technique to not counter-rotate my turns?

The answer to me seems to be that technique carries more weight in the equation than does equipment. If that's true, then I should be able to adapt EC technique to some or most existing carving boards, boots, and bindings. If it is the other way around that equipment carries a larger portion of the ability to EC then, there is a vast untapped market out there for anyone who can get those things to us riders. And no amount of technique is going to help you without the right equipment for EC.

You guys are doing the boards, whose going to come up with the right bindings and boots? Northwave could do the boots, eventually. Bindings? More flexible Bombers? Stiffer Carbons?

If EC is going to make it, there's got to be affordable and AVAILABLE equipment. I hope it happens.

[rilliet]

Hi Utahcarver,

How much of EC is technique and how much is equipment?

The most important to me is technique!

Equipment is optimization. Any hardboot that are not totally stiff and allows knie flexion will suit EC. The same with the bindings. In example, I tried the Emery Course and they worked very well. I also think that the F2 Race Titanium, Burton Race (the last model), etc, are just perfect for the job.

IMHO, the biggest equipment obstacle is the narrow boards, because the feet angulation they impose, strongly interfere with the rider correct positions and movements.

Our equipment is just the optimum we could get.

If EC is going to make it, there's got to be affordable and AVAILABLE equipment. I hope it happens.

Me too!

[utahcarver]

Jacques,

If you are correct in your opinion about technique, then (almost) anyone should be able to Ecarve with properly adapted equipment using your suggested technique(s) from the main site. Can I develop the technique without EC specific equipment? Or, is the technique a slave to the equipment?

I'm sorry if I sound like I might be going in circles here. I'm trying to figure out how much of my existing equipment might be applicable to the EC technique. For instance, I have a Burton M8 which is wide, long and relatively stiff. I'm thinking I could make this old beast Ecarve with the right boot/binding setup. Or would I be better off adapting some other board to this discipline.

Thanks,

Utahcarver

[rilliet]

Hi Utahcarver,

To me, the only absolute obstacle to lay down a turn is the feet that go beyond the egde.

If you meet this condition, you can lay down a turn.
The first time, I did it with a freestyle board and soft boots!

But the efficiency will directly depend on your equipment (and technique of course).

You can lay down turns with a freestyle board in good snow, at low speed and with huge efforts. And because of the low speed limitation, you will only be able to do short radius turns... and get very low sensations.
That's why freestylers don't lay down.

To make large radius laid turns on any snow, at high speed and in an easy way with super sensations, you need suitable equipment.

In your case, I think your M8 is already a good board to try our technique.
If it allows you the correct settings, it will probably work fine in quite good snow conditions, and it's length and stiffness will allow you nice speed and sensations.

have a good testing!

Jacques

[rilliet]

You guys are doing the boards, whose going to come up with the right bindings and boots? Northwave could do the boots, eventually. Bindings? More flexible Bombers? Stiffer Carbons?

If EC meets succes, I hope it will be possible in the future to modify existing equipent with the manufacturers.

Example:

Boots: Reichle AF700 or the new UPS: adaptation of the spring mecanism, to meet EC boot flex distribution requirements.

Bindings: developement in collaboration with Trench Digger, Catek or another high quality binding manufacturer of a composite base plate that fits there pads and bails. So they would have this new more flexible model for EC and wide boards and there current one for narrow race boards.
Imagine: an EC binding that never breaks, wow!...

But I think this is for the future...

Today we have to use and adapt the current avaliable equiment.

You are the pioneers Guys!
Patrice and I are the two first ones. The next guy who gets an EC board from us is going to be the third one!

Jacques

[nils]

I am number 3 !!!

(you are number 6..! I'm not a number i'm a free man...'quote from the prisoner', TV serie of the 60's..)

[RicHard]

Just my opinion.
Board: last year I used to ride the F2 Silberpfeil; no chance to have less than 60°F/55°B without having your boots out of the edges (I've got even a small foot!). Several trainings with an instructor let me understand the benefits of a wider and lower angles stance, but narrrow boards and low angles stance means: NO EC carves at all!!!
Now I ride my Burton FP 178 (20cm at the waist, 13.3m radius) and I think it's the closest board on the market to the EC ones. Wider board have very short radius and wider radius board are 19cm wide at the center; other compromises are too flexible and not enough stiff.

Bindings: Burton Race bindings are plastic and seems to be very fragile; I hate them. But I think they are the softest race bindings on the market, so... the can fit my EC requirements, since the FP173 (even the 178 one) is not so stiff. I would like to switch to the Proflex/F2 race titanium but I think they are too stiff: I fear they could not allow the board to flex gradually along the entire base.

I think that EC is mainly a technique skill, just because there are on the market boards similar to EC ones. Not the same, maybe too different, but I think that what you can do with a very good technique and training, you can't do with a lack of it, even if you've got the best EC board ever made.

If you've got technique and boards...well... you are one of the two guys you see in the Extremecarving video (or one of the three that you see on this forum)!!!


P.S.: Ehm... it's Off Topic, but this could be the right momento to ask such a question: does anybody have the 3D disc that can allow me to mount the race titanium on the Burton board?!

P.S.2: Same for me: never a day pass without having me to watch the last extremecarving video...
I think I'm clever enough to make such a movie with myself riding, exactly, in the same way of them...yes...but just for the part where they carve... dreaming in the bed!

Ciao!
_RicHard

[rilliet]

narrrow boards and low angles stance means: NO EC carves at all!!!

Hi Richard,

This winter, I tried a Scott narrow race board with very high angulation.
I felt horrible: I couldn't move properly, because the position make the legs stiff. During the turns, it was nearly impossible to change the board inclination because the joint axis orientation of the knies is nearly perpendicular to the board (the knies are facing the nose of the board)!

Result: I could do the frontside laid turn with a lot of difficulty, but was unable to achieve the backside one!

When I went back on my board, all was so easy and obvious!

Burton Race bindings are plastic and seems to be very fragile

they are not because they incorpore an aluminium part inside that holds the whole binding.

But I think they are the softest race bindings on the market

They are not so soft. My Fin's carbon plates are a little bit softer.

I think that what you can do with a very good technique and training, you can't do with a lack of it, even if you've got the best EC board ever made.

I agree, but the "best EC board" will allow you to learn the EC technique quickly and easily.

Jacques

[RicHard]

> I agree, but the "best EC board" will allow you to learn the EC technique quickly and easily.

Absolutely "yes"! I was just doing the two extreme cases: "no technique with EC board" and "optimal technique without EC board".
Having the same technique, it's obvious that a board thougt for EC is a great help.
I absolutely agree with you when you say that high angles stuck you in a position not allowing you to move properly: your rear ankle's joint, for example, in frontside carves, feels pain if you try to rotate your torso properly, not allowing you to enter with your front shoulder in the right position.

_RicHard

[Pux]

Hi Jacques,

You offered Raichle and UPs as an option for EC:

Boots: Reichle AF700 or the new UPS: adaptation of the spring mecanism, to meet EC boot flex distribution requirements

Which one of UPS boots you mentioned for adaption - UPS RSV RACE BOOT or UPS X FREECARVE BOOT

Regards,
Normunds

[rilliet]

I thought to the RSV-MACH or the X-MACH.

here: http://www.telecom.at/ups-boots/

[skywalker]

Hi,

I,ve been looking for the Blax/Head Stealth II bindings but only found the stealth and the profile carbon. Do You know, where I can find some pics or even the possibility to buy a pair of the stealth II??? Thanks and

regards

Tom

[rilliet]

Hi Tom,

We are looking for the same thing too.

We will give the information when we will have it.

Jacques

[fivat]

Hi Tom,

I,ve been looking for the Blax/Head Stealth II bindings but only found the stealth and the profile carbon. Do You know, where I can find some pics or even the possibility to buy a pair of the stealth II???

The Blax Stealth II is actually the "normal" Stealth binding.
Avoid the Intec model (step-in) which is too stiff laterally.
Here is a picture of the Blax Stealth binding:


As you know, Blax doesn't exist anymore, it belongs to Head now. I was told by a guy working with Head that my favourite binding could be produced by Head this winter, with the name Head of course... However there is no word about hard bindings in their Web site!? In 2-3 weeks I will get other informations from this guy. Stay around

-Patrice Fivat

[fivat]

GOOD NEWS!

The "HEAD Stealth DNA" bindings are still produced this season. They are the same as the old Blax (see the picture above) but are red. The prize is about 230 Euros (in Switzerland).

The 2002-2003 Intec model exists too, but in this site we don't recommend the Intec because of the lateral stiffness.

If HEAD sells enough of these bindings this season, they will probably produce them next year too. But it's silly to say nothing about this model in their website

-Patrice Fivat