Wide EC boards never ending topic
Moderators: fivat, rilliet, Arnaud, nils
Re: hehe yes :)
You are so right Hans!!!!! I think you are understanding what I mean, give the riders a choice! No racism!Hans wrote:Wise words Nils, only you, me and some others did feed this/put some extra oil on the fire with a so called new board the Glad I.........r. So may be we can stop this so called jokes also.
And discuss only the things that makes sense here: fun in snowboarding and some healthy, sharp discussions about the new Swoard and some healthy comparisons with other wide boards like COILER, VIRUS, DONEK, GOLTES and other not named brands which are gonna make wide carveboards too.
As you proposed to me we can start an extra head forum to give an opinion about the riding characteristics on the boards we own so every one could have benefit from it.
It's nice to see other brands follow the success of Swoard so we buyers have more things to chose from. Keep up the good work and let us burry the hatchet.
Amen.
Shut up and ride!
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nils
- Swoard founder
- Posts: 3043
- Joined: Friday 22 March 2002, 19:22
- Location: Lyon, France - Swoard team
- Contact:
Indeed
We finally agree on something and we also share Hans point...good start !
As stated previously: its not the competition that we dislike, we think it is great that other provide EC tools too ( we need boots, bindings, clothes...), its just the method used that we disliked...and hence our reaction.
We are working on a new version of the manifesto, or a follow up version that will explain our philosophy and why all techniques and board styles should live together for the benefit of alpine riding...it will clear a few mis- understandings and "urban legends" for sure....( such as: ec.com hates racers, narrow boards, different riding techniques...) stay tuned...
N
As stated previously: its not the competition that we dislike, we think it is great that other provide EC tools too ( we need boots, bindings, clothes...), its just the method used that we disliked...and hence our reaction.
We are working on a new version of the manifesto, or a follow up version that will explain our philosophy and why all techniques and board styles should live together for the benefit of alpine riding...it will clear a few mis- understandings and "urban legends" for sure....( such as: ec.com hates racers, narrow boards, different riding techniques...) stay tuned...
N
Re: Indeed
???nils wrote:We finally agree on something and we also share Hans point...good start !
As stated previously: its not the competition that we dislike, we think it is great that other provide EC tools too ( we need boots, bindings, clothes...), its just the method used that we disliked...and hence our reaction.
We are working on a new version of the manifesto, or a follow up version that will explain our philosophy and why all techniques and board styles should live together for the benefit of alpine riding...it will clear a few mis- understandings and "urban legends" for sure....( such as: ec.com hates racers, narrow boards, different riding techniques...) stay tuned...
N
Why do you need a "manifesto" ??? JUST RIDE!!! Let people see on the slope whats going on! Do videos....promote...but RIDE!!!!
JUST RIDE!!!!
Re: Indeed
Maybe Nils meant https://www.extremecarving.com/philo/manif.htmlMcFussel wrote:???
Why do you need a "manifesto" ??? JUST RIDE!!! Let people see on the slope whats going on! Do videos....promote...but RIDE!!!!
JUST RIDE!!!!
I find writing down the spirit IS yet another important point.
btw. it's sunday afternoon, some snow on the glaciers - you must have had quite a fast ride back home from the ski resort, he?
X-| nüscht
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rilliet
- Swoard & EC founder
- Posts: 714
- Joined: Tuesday 26 March 2002, 10:39
- Location: Lausanne, Switzerland
- Contact:
I take the opportunity of this discussion to give some related thoughts.
Narrow boards:
We have nothing against narrow boards and never said that they don't work. We just say that wide board work too. Both system have advantages and drawbacks. For what we do, how we ride and how we dream to ride, we think that a performant wide board is the best tool.
Remember that when we published our Manifesto in 2002, there was no performant wide board on the alpine market and this one was nearly dead.
We came at that time with a new concept of riding technique and board that shaked a little bit the alpine community. The fact that today other manufacturers also make wide EC boards shows that we are now part of it.
Poor funny videos:
I would appreciate that Virus 1 shows us a video that he likes and that he thinks rocks (ie: himself).
Easy perfect slopes:
Some people believe that in our movies we ride « total heroe snow » all the time and that EC is only possible on such snow quality. In fact, we made all our videos during March and April because January most of the time lacks of snow in our area and February is the holiday period so the slopes are to crowded for making a movie. In Zinal and Grimentz, March can be great or icy, April has usually spring snow quality. In our movies (and photos) 70% to 80% of the shots have been made on hard, icy snow or ice. But the video quality cannot show the difference of snow quality. The fact is that during an EC turn the huge roostertail produced by a vertical board, even on icy snow, combined with a fluid style makes some people believe we ride on easy soft snow.
For example, the Opus 3 has been 100% filmed on a 1.5 to 2 months old icy snow. The grooming machine was even not able to make the Barthelemy perfectly flat anymore and their was some kind of long waves all along the slope.
Gloves, pants and Jackets that wear out too fast:
The problem is that today it is impossible to find a strong pair of gloves. 9 years ago I bought a pair of Ziener made for carving that used a lot of kevlar. 9 years later I still use them and i'm riding 30 to 50 days a season. But I must admit that I had to customise them and repare them sometimes. My pants last 2 seasons without any customisation. My jackets 2 seasons too but I put Sika latex on the elbows (there are some subjects about such tunings on the forum).
Swoard copies
As I already said we have nothing against the fact that other manufacturers make wide EC boards. On the contrary, this is very positive because it shows that this market is growing up and give a wide choice to customers. But IMHO each brand should keep his own visual and behaviour identity with an original name. Otherwise alpine snowboarding is going to be like softboots snowboarding or skiing market: except the topsheet design, most of these products look the same.
Jacques
Narrow boards:
We have nothing against narrow boards and never said that they don't work. We just say that wide board work too. Both system have advantages and drawbacks. For what we do, how we ride and how we dream to ride, we think that a performant wide board is the best tool.
Remember that when we published our Manifesto in 2002, there was no performant wide board on the alpine market and this one was nearly dead.
We came at that time with a new concept of riding technique and board that shaked a little bit the alpine community. The fact that today other manufacturers also make wide EC boards shows that we are now part of it.
Poor funny videos:
I would appreciate that Virus 1 shows us a video that he likes and that he thinks rocks (ie: himself).
Easy perfect slopes:
Some people believe that in our movies we ride « total heroe snow » all the time and that EC is only possible on such snow quality. In fact, we made all our videos during March and April because January most of the time lacks of snow in our area and February is the holiday period so the slopes are to crowded for making a movie. In Zinal and Grimentz, March can be great or icy, April has usually spring snow quality. In our movies (and photos) 70% to 80% of the shots have been made on hard, icy snow or ice. But the video quality cannot show the difference of snow quality. The fact is that during an EC turn the huge roostertail produced by a vertical board, even on icy snow, combined with a fluid style makes some people believe we ride on easy soft snow.
For example, the Opus 3 has been 100% filmed on a 1.5 to 2 months old icy snow. The grooming machine was even not able to make the Barthelemy perfectly flat anymore and their was some kind of long waves all along the slope.
Gloves, pants and Jackets that wear out too fast:
The problem is that today it is impossible to find a strong pair of gloves. 9 years ago I bought a pair of Ziener made for carving that used a lot of kevlar. 9 years later I still use them and i'm riding 30 to 50 days a season. But I must admit that I had to customise them and repare them sometimes. My pants last 2 seasons without any customisation. My jackets 2 seasons too but I put Sika latex on the elbows (there are some subjects about such tunings on the forum).
Swoard copies
As I already said we have nothing against the fact that other manufacturers make wide EC boards. On the contrary, this is very positive because it shows that this market is growing up and give a wide choice to customers. But IMHO each brand should keep his own visual and behaviour identity with an original name. Otherwise alpine snowboarding is going to be like softboots snowboarding or skiing market: except the topsheet design, most of these products look the same.
Jacques
It's amazing that a Shaper of Snowboards (from Germany) has now time to post a lot of some realy stupid declarations on several Message Boards-forum like bomberonline, extremecarving and also that German FrozenBackside. And in add of, this same shaper smears some members there. In Oktober most of Snowboard-Companys are on hard work by deliver theire products and gives advise to the shops and consumers. Only one Snowboard-Company is going berserk (accès folie subite, Amok laufen), because perhaps sales-figures gives not satsifaction! It seems now I know why they put out a board with the name Berserker!
Well to prevent, that I will be smeared by such a all over stupid shaper, like I read it at bomberonline, I think I will never tune to this German Boards! (What a hell will be, when they are weak and how should I get there some product-warranty by a sorhead like him ?)
Well to prevent, that I will be smeared by such a all over stupid shaper, like I read it at bomberonline, I think I will never tune to this German Boards! (What a hell will be, when they are weak and how should I get there some product-warranty by a sorhead like him ?)
Es gibt Boarder, die carven um Kopftücher der FIS zu küssen, 
Ich carve mein free Style, denn auf die FIS kann ich pissen!
Ich carve mein free Style, denn auf die FIS kann ich pissen!
Très bon test Jacque on compent pourquoi Swoard marche I agree both boards wide and narrow work!rilliet wrote:I take the opportunity of this discussion to give some related thoughts.
Narrow boards:
We have nothing against narrow boards and never said that they don't work. We just say that wide board work too. Both system have advantages and drawbacks. For what we do, how we ride and how we dream to ride, we think that a performant wide board is the best tool.
Remember that when we published our Manifesto in 2002, there was no performant wide board on the alpine market and this one was nearly dead.
But others worked on wide boards at that time too, its a thing of which minimum messurement you think its wide or wide enough!
Send us your camera guy!rilliet wrote:We came at that time with a new concept of riding technique and board that shaked a little bit the alpine community. The fact that today other manufacturers also make wide EC boards shows that we are now part of it.
Poor funny videos:
I would appreciate that Virus 1 shows us a video that he likes and that he thinks rocks (ie: himself).
The snow can be firm and hardpacked, ice is something different for sure!rilliet wrote:Easy perfect slopes:
Some people believe that in our movies we ride « total heroe snow » all the time and that EC is only possible on such snow quality. In fact, we made all our videos during March and April because January most of the time lacks of snow in our area and February is the holiday period so the slopes are to crowded for making a movie. In Zinal and Grimentz, March can be great or icy, April has usually spring snow quality. In our movies (and photos) 70% to 80% of the shots have been made on hard, icy snow or ice. But the video quality cannot show the difference of snow quality. The fact is that during an EC turn the huge roostertail produced by a vertical board, even on icy snow, combined with a fluid style makes some people believe we ride on easy soft snow.
For example, the Opus 3 has been 100% filmed on a 1.5 to 2 months old icy snow. The grooming machine was even not able to make the Barthelemy perfectly flat anymore and their was some kind of long waves all along the slope.
and when it was March or April the snow gets soft after 2 hours of sun!
So you saved a lot of money!rilliet wrote:Gloves, pants and Jackets that wear out too fast:
The problem is that today it is impossible to find a strong pair of gloves. 9 years ago I bought a pair of Ziener made for carving that used a lot of kevlar. 9 years later I still use them and i'm riding 30 to 50 days a season. But I must admit that I had to customise them and repare them sometimes. My pants last 2 seasons without any customisation. My jackets 2 seasons too but I put Sika latex on the elbows (there are some subjects about such tunings on the forum).
That´s totally new that you are so open minded, bravo!rilliet wrote:Swoard copies
As I already said we have nothing against the fact that other manufacturers make wide EC boards. On the contrary, this is very positive because it shows that this market is growing up and give a wide choice to customers. But IMHO each brand should keep his own visual and behaviour identity with an original name. Otherwise alpine snowboarding is going to be like softboots snowboarding or skiing market: except the topsheet design, most of these products look the same.
So the we can stop that all here an do what we can do best, our job and ride!
May be boards look like the same but they ride different!
Shut up and ride!
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fivat
- Swoard & EC founder
- Posts: 3035
- Joined: Thursday 21 March 2002, 13:13
- Location: Geneva, Switzerland
- Contact:
Some facts
Hello, I'm back from the DigiFestival (Florence, Italy) with excellent souvenirs and an award. 
I see that this thread has degenerated but fortunately Nils has moderated the posts. All has started from the initial Virus1's post which is aggressive, not polite, not objective (of course), with many wrong things. Such bad messages are interesting and say a lot about their author.
For me, Virus1 (whose IP is located in Germany... why hiding behind a pseudo?) is gesticulating for nothing. The truth is that Virus has made narrow alpine boards for 15 years and is a specialist in this domain. During the last two seasons, Swoard gave Virus the opportunity to follow the trend for wider alpine boards (and extremecarving), that we started in 2002, by producing boards for us. But the delays were never respected (for example boards ordered on May were partially delivered on January!) and our tight specifications were not always followed. It was bad for all the customers and hell for us. Some other facts made us loose all trust in this collaboration. Jacques Rilliet, our shaper-extremecarver (the only shaper EC-specialist on the snow), has always many ideas of development but he could not work in such conditions. We have finally found an excellent collaboration with Nidecker. We work with nice and professional people who are open to our ideas. We can go ahead now!
Big companies like F2 and Deeluxe recognize this year the trend for wider boards. Some gesticulations from other brands like the ones we can see in this tread are just movements of people who struggle to try following the trend we have started. They even copy the outline of our model and take similar (or almost same) names, what is illegal! This looks like a « Chinese » method to create a new board... Fortunately the outline is only one parameters among many others.
Sorry if my words are not as diplomat as Nils' ones and not as likeable as Jacques' ones. I'm the bad boy of the team.
However everyone can confirm that at Swoard we have always been honest, nice and trustful. We have done so much for the community: starting new trends (extremecarving, wide boards, softer boots, etc.), big Web site, Forum, giving all the secrets of our EC technique, organizing big events, promoting alpine snowboarding and showing many videos & pictures (note that the other alpine brands show NO videos!!). We will continue to follow our philosophy and won't criticize other brands because we are confident in our own product that we are still improving. Last summer was really great, the 3rd generation is incredible and everyone could test it very soon.
Patrice Fivat
I see that this thread has degenerated but fortunately Nils has moderated the posts. All has started from the initial Virus1's post which is aggressive, not polite, not objective (of course), with many wrong things. Such bad messages are interesting and say a lot about their author.For me, Virus1 (whose IP is located in Germany... why hiding behind a pseudo?) is gesticulating for nothing. The truth is that Virus has made narrow alpine boards for 15 years and is a specialist in this domain. During the last two seasons, Swoard gave Virus the opportunity to follow the trend for wider alpine boards (and extremecarving), that we started in 2002, by producing boards for us. But the delays were never respected (for example boards ordered on May were partially delivered on January!) and our tight specifications were not always followed. It was bad for all the customers and hell for us. Some other facts made us loose all trust in this collaboration. Jacques Rilliet, our shaper-extremecarver (the only shaper EC-specialist on the snow), has always many ideas of development but he could not work in such conditions. We have finally found an excellent collaboration with Nidecker. We work with nice and professional people who are open to our ideas. We can go ahead now!
Big companies like F2 and Deeluxe recognize this year the trend for wider boards. Some gesticulations from other brands like the ones we can see in this tread are just movements of people who struggle to try following the trend we have started. They even copy the outline of our model and take similar (or almost same) names, what is illegal! This looks like a « Chinese » method to create a new board... Fortunately the outline is only one parameters among many others.
Sorry if my words are not as diplomat as Nils' ones and not as likeable as Jacques' ones. I'm the bad boy of the team.
However everyone can confirm that at Swoard we have always been honest, nice and trustful. We have done so much for the community: starting new trends (extremecarving, wide boards, softer boots, etc.), big Web site, Forum, giving all the secrets of our EC technique, organizing big events, promoting alpine snowboarding and showing many videos & pictures (note that the other alpine brands show NO videos!!). We will continue to follow our philosophy and won't criticize other brands because we are confident in our own product that we are still improving. Last summer was really great, the 3rd generation is incredible and everyone could test it very soon.Patrice Fivat
-
fivat
- Swoard & EC founder
- Posts: 3035
- Joined: Thursday 21 March 2002, 13:13
- Location: Geneva, Switzerland
- Contact:
Yes sorry, as I said I'm the bad boy of the team.
I have written this personally and not in the name of the team.
Some truths needed to be written since many readers here don't know the entire story. I have heard too many rumours and wrong things.
Maybe we should lock the thread and talk about more interesting things.
Patrice Fivat
I have written this personally and not in the name of the team.
Some truths needed to be written since many readers here don't know the entire story. I have heard too many rumours and wrong things.
Maybe we should lock the thread and talk about more interesting things.
Patrice Fivat