DIY binding suspension

[sabestian]

Hi all!
First a short intro... I have been carving since 90's with a longish break. I certainly would not call myself an extreme carver but it is for sure the direction I am heading (thanks EC.com for influencing me!!!).
Now, that I got back to it I am playing with boards and bindings a bit.

I own Emery Coarse bindings that I really like but they are very stiff - too stiff for poor icy slopes I am dealing with in Poland.

The idea is to use a dampening plate of some sort to find out if it will be enough to make them suitable for my secondary board (an old HT Prince Albert 18 ).

And no, I can't afford S-Flex...

There are a few questions:
1. what material to use (silicone sheet - what sort? rubber? or perhaps... cork??)
2. how thick should it be?
3. where to place it? On Emery you can place it either under the whole binding plate [blue line], or under front and rear sliding parts [red].

I am inclined to use a 5mm cork plate under the whole binding plate...but waiting for your opinions (I don't know how would it withstand the weather?).

Thanks in advance for all the thoughts!

[nils]

I suggest very stiff silicone,or, better, neoprene spacers used in construction.
The only problem is with more comfort or flex you will get more power on the bails, and they are not very strong on those bindings, especially on wider boards with lower angles ( they were designed at a time when everyone was on 18-19cm wide boards max)

Nils

[sabestian]

Thanks! I thought it would be the other way round! More flex - less stress put on the bails, as if you were relieving them... Could you explain why is it the opposite?

[user]

i think the forces on bails depends on the width of the board (and so low angles), not the flex of the bindings. please correct me if i'm wrong.
I would place the plates between bindings and board. so the bending of the board when doing carves is less disturbed by the hard plates. i think you should take soft plastic plates, but don't really know.

[negedeng]

I ride a pair of F2 Titanium (not the Flex).
I took a 3mm thik plate of Vulkollan with 96 shore hardness.
I cut out a shape according to the blue line of the above picture.
Addidionaly I cut out a hole in the middle in the sice of the centre disc.

I did it to prevent the board surface of any imprints of the binding. To get more flex was not the reason.

96 shore is relative hard. I am not sure if more flex is given with this.

As far as I know Vulollan is available in 3 different grades of hardness, where 96 shore is the hardest.

Here a link to the material http://www.bayer-baysystems.com/bms/bay ... _Vulkollan

There are also other manufacturers of that material with same specs, but than the material does have a different name.

Since you are riding a Emery binding.
Can you adjust canting and heel/toe lift with the Emery?
If yes, how to adjust it? (wedge like with the F2?)

[sabestian]

Yes, wedges like F2/Proflex.

I wish I had a quick access to such materials, I'm stuck with what local stores have on offer. I bought 3mm thick cork and a firm elastic-plastic plates, will play with these and see how it goes.

[dannew]

I have also thought about this. I got tired of the binding chattering on the board and the ugly marks that follow.
Looked around and found that auto part stores often have a thin (less than 1.5mm) rubber sheet to use for gaskets. These are very hard and take compression forces extremely well - and cheep/easy to find.
It doesnt make a true suspension feeling, but definitely takes away the hard binding against hard board chatter I had before.
Worth a try.

[Schneewurm]

Emery Coarse is one of the most pure none suspended bindings at all.

Cork will break away and remain compressed with the time of use. Damping is ok and it's lightweight. But rubber with a structure, which allows compressions (like on a tyre), works fine. Try out worn-out mtb tires or bicycle tires, could be found everywhere for cheap on the world.
Please don't take worn-out bike tubes! In Switzerland we need them for rubber bands!
http://www.taet-tat.ch/produkte_detail_ ... =4&lang=en

[sabestian]

Thanks for all the input.

I understand that cork will degrade with use but "fortunately" I don't ride much... it's 7 days a year at best. So I think I can live with that.

Talking about 'rubber with structure' - mtb tyres - I can't quite imagine that. They tend to be rather thick, even like 10mm. Wouldn't it be too much? I am worried about damaging inserts when the binding plate would pull the screws to the side (sort of sliding movement of the binding). Perhaps a car tyre would be more stable?

Edit: OK, you're talking worn out tyres. But then their thickness would not be even, creating pressure points... Just thinking loud.

[Schneewurm]

Cork should be replaced after 3-7 days (for You, every season), depending on riding power.

10 mm can be too much. Side movements at screw area should be prevented. But there is another problem. Screws must have the exact length. They should be as long to take up the coil of the the insert. They should be as short for not to reach on the bottom of inserts after thighten them (compression of rubber). Rubber thickness of 4-5 mm with e.g. 2-3 mm of structure (which can be fully compressed during rides) can give a smoother ride.

[sabestian]

Yep, damaging inserts of my beloved boards is bugging me a lot. I will try to measure everything properly to avoid such a case. Also, some kind of thread lock will be applied. That way I will notice any play that develops in the system (being sure that the screws did not come loose on their own).

Also, I am thinking of copying part of F2/Proflex susupension design - there is rubber between the base plate AND under the bail trolleys. So I could follow the blue AND the red line and suspend it all.

Of course, there is also a rubber gasket between the plate and the ring that you screw to the inserts (gold in Emery's case), which I can't copy... It's fixed solid to the board, so that the plate that is attached to it can move freely.

The more I think about it, the more it amazes me, how well thought F2/Proflex bindings are. They don't look like that at the first sight, they look very simple if not primitive!

TD bindings also come with suspension but it is different - it's a metal disk under the plate and silicone around it. I imagine that it provides less dampening and is there more to decrease the binding's plate effect on flexing the board, right? Perhaps that's the way to go.

Edit: Maybe it would be best to go for TD suspension plus suspend the bail trolleys on some rubber. That way everything should be sound and safe.

I am sure I am borying some of you but then there are a lot of guys like me who for some reasons modify their gear. Unlike for boots' spring suspension systems there is virtually no resource on this subject, so hopefully we are helping someone along.

[benttech]

Hi sabestian, where are you from in Poland, Im in Wroclaw If you want my advice buy a different pair of bindings. Last season I bought a pair of Blax step ins for 150zloty and they are the most flexible bindings Ive ever owned and find them actually too "loose" and soft.

Also check out the riding plates from Catek or Kessler, but theyre quite expensive. I own a pair of Palmer powerlinks that I use sometimes that can add a bit of dampening and height, about 10mm, they look this



You can buy them on allegro for around 150zl.

[sabestian]

Hi there, I live near Warsaw. I do have another pair of bindings, Proflex (F2) and use them mainly. But I really like the way the Emery's are made (CNC etc), they look the dogs. So I want to keep on using them - unless I would need to invest my money. That's wy Palmer PL are out of the question in this case. Still thanks for the idea, I may copy that design, actually

It is just a design exercise, not the actual need of improving things (although that would be a nice bonus). I've already understand a lot more about bindings than before, and that's the point.

I will cut out an elastic-plastic circle to go under the middle of the binding and then rubber or cork sheet will support the rest of the plate. That way the area where the inserts are will be well supported and the board will be able to flex more freely. Then I will support the bail trolleys on rubber, too, to add even more flex to the system. Will post pictures of finished work this weekend, time allowing.

[sabestian]

OK, I started playing with materials. One more dilemma is, while I am at it, why not to lift the binding only in the center (dark green circle), leaving the toe and heelside hanging above the board surface (light green rectangles)?

Would it be dangerous for the bindings or inserts? Similiar thing is done on other bindings (of course they are designed for that, larger footprint of the discs etc TD, Catec). But when you're adding a Palmer PL aren't you doing basically the same thing? Suspending toes and heels in the air?

As far as I want to experiment, I don't want to break something (including me).

[benttech]

OK, I started playing with materials. One more dilemma is, while I am at it, why not to lift the binding only in the center (dark green circle), leaving the toe and heelside hanging above the board surface (light green rectangles)?

Would it be dangerous for the bindings or inserts? Similiar thing is done on other bindings (of course they are designed for that, larger footprint of the discs etc TD, Catec). But when you're adding a Palmer PL aren't you doing basically the same thing? Suspending toes and heels in the air?

As far as I want to experiment, I don't want to break something (including me).

With the Palmers I mount them at an angle so the entire binding is supported, ie, I am not suspending any part of the binding in the air. My biggest worry is putting too much stress on the screws and baseplate, and without any support under the toe and heel I fear that I could crack the binding or worse.

But I rarely use my Blaxs and am riding on TD2s with the yellow e-rings and am really really happy.