Mixing styles

[LinkerError]

Hello,

I've been snowboarding for quite a long time now, and I've developed a style which every other rider I come across thinks is strange. I'm very much an alpine rider, I love carving and speed, and yet I enjoy the moguls, and fast turns broken up with small jumps. This can be called freeride, fine. However, I ride a 135cm freestyle board, with my feet angling at 66 and 45 degrees. Many people have told me this isn't good, yet I feel more comfortable with these. I would like to know, what are the best methods for enhancing my style of ride, with my current equipment ( Burton bindings, soft boots, Salomon board ) and settings, so that I can improve faster ?
Thank you,
Quentin

[AlpentalRider]

If you like it, who cares about everyone else? But If the 135 is all you've ridden, you should try longer boards and vary your binding angles to see what you like. To be honest, you can't go by other people's opinions in terms of what stance angles you should ride, it all comes down to personal preference. If you can hold an edge on both icy and crud conditions with those angles, then your good to go.

For my freeride setup I ride a Burton Johan 163 with Burton boots and bindings at angles of 32/29 with a rear inward cant of 5 degrees. What I found for me is that I prefer stiff freeride boards in the 160 cm lengths. I used to ride a Burton Custom 155, and my Johan feels WAY more stable at speed and can hold a carve way better. Plus I do 90% of my riding in the backcountry and this setup rocks for me in those type of conditions.

So my recommendation to you would be to demo boards in the 140, 150, and 160 cm range with the same flex pattern as what you have. Longer boards generally give you more stability (all other things equal). Also play with your stance angles in increments to see what you like and don't like. Try 54/45 for a half day to get used to it and see if you like it more. If you do, then keep decreasing the angles slightly until you either feel uncomfortable or end up with boot overhang. In an ideal world you would want stance angles that put your toes and heel on the edge of the board without overhang. But again, it's gonna come down to what is comfortable for you with the kind of riding you do.

[LinkerError]

AlpentalRider, thanks for your reply. I've ridden 145, 154 and 163 boards, and have found my 135 to be the nicest to control, as I enjoy rapid, controlled turns and find shorter boards to be easier to control. I very much enjoy push-pull turns, and although I'd like to ride something like a 170 to try this and see both extremes, I'm not sure what exactly to try. As for my binding angles, I've worked them up to 66 and 45 from 15 and 0, and I'm still thinking of pushing the front foot even more. I'm still riding on a soft-boot system, and I was told the best for carving was a very tall swallowtail board and a hard-boot system. Unfortunately, I don't have access to much of the equipment. My biggest problem with my current settings is riding on ice, I lose control very fast and usually end up in a sliding faceplant. My edge is sharp, so I suppose it has to do more with the board being too short to provide good stability. If you have any ideas for this, that would be great. My second biggest problem comes from jumps. I love small jumps in which I get little air but maintain speed and can continue riding straight away. However, on larger jumps, I tend to lose my balance in the air and end up on my back. Is there a known method for keeping your balance in the air ?
Thank you,
Quentin

[István]

Hi Quentin,

I'm not sure if we mean the same thing under 'CARVING'. This site is dedicated to EXTREME CARVING that is carving pushed to the extremes. I would suggest that you check out the videos on the site yourself.

This does not mean, that people here do not do any other styles, but if it comes to EC (what WE mean under EC) vast majority of the people here will give you the same advice, i.e. long and wide board, hard-boots, angles arond 50-55 degrees, riding flat, etc.

Thus any writings of boards with a length of 135 cm (not knowing your heigth) and carving with soft-boots will cause a bit of surprising here....

It does not mean that EC is impossible with other equipment, it only means that with other type of equipment you'll have difficulties in performing the turns, or you might not be able to do totally laid turns, or you might not be able to link the turns, or you might not be able to ride icy slopes.

Again, jumps belong to a different style. ECers do not do huge jumps (at least I do not) because the above detailed equipment is not the proper for that.

Hope I could help,

Cheers,

István

[AlpentalRider]

I enjoy rapid, controlled turns and find shorter boards to be easier to control

The turn radius of the board will dictate how quick and sharp your turns are, not the length (assuming your carving and not skidding your turn). If your finding longer boards harder to control, then one of two things is happening: either the longer boards have a larger turn radius, or there are some issues with your technique. Try finding longer boards with the same turn radius as your 135. Also, your stance angles will make it harder for you to get the board on edge in transition, which may be attributing to your problems. I do push-pull for most of my turns and my 163 does not seem long at all. My 155 felt way too short for me.

My biggest problem with my current settings is riding on ice, I lose control very fast and usually end up in a sliding faceplant

I think this is a combination of your board length, binding angles, and your balance on the board. When on ice, you must have good form and be able to absorb the vibrations or you will chatter and skid out. Angulation is key in ice, if your weight isn't properly over the board, your going to go sliding. A shorter board requires you to be that much more precise, and will be a much less stable platform for you.

My second biggest problem comes from jumps. I love small jumps in which I get little air but maintain speed and can continue riding straight away. However, on larger jumps, I tend to lose my balance in the air and end up on my back. Is there a known method for keeping your balance in the air ?

The problem you are having probably has to do with your takeoff. Your body position and balance at takeoff will dictate what happens to you in the air. Try the following:
- Approach the jump flat on your base and straight. Make sure your not in a turn or at an angle.
- As you near the jump, bend your knees and make sure you are balanced and centered over the board with equal pressure on both feet.
- As you go up the lip of the jump, concentrate on keeping yourself centered and relaxed. If you are off balance at all here, your gonna have problems.
- When you take off from the jump, DO NOT OLLIE. Just let the board go off the jump naturally. If you try and kick off the jump, you are going to be unbalanced and have problems in the air. Also, do not straighten your legs out when you take off, keep them bent. If anything, at this point you can bring your legs in more to your body to get in a real tucked position.
- Spot your landing while you are in the air, and concentrate on staying level in flight. When you get better you can do grabs and such, but right now just concentrate on floating.
- When your ready to hit the landing, extend your legs out to 75% full extention. Do not straighten your legs fully, as you won't be able to absorb the shock of the landing.
- Once you touch the landing absorb it with your legs. You will compres pretty hard if it's a big hit, so be prepared to compress all the way to your board and back up.


Some resources for you in terms of your technique and getting better would be the following:

http://www.alpinecarving.com
http://www.bomberonline.com/articles/tech_articles.cfm
https://www.extremecarving.com/tech/tech.html

To be quite honest, unless your under 5' and light as hell, a 135 is way too short a board for advanced riders. Not even pipe/park guys ride boards under 145. My gut feeling is once you fix some issues with your form, you will find that the longer boards in the 160 range will be much more enjoyable for you.

Good luck and happy riding.

[LinkerError]

Thanks for your replies, and the URLs.

István : by carving, I do not mean extreme carving, as this is almost impossible to do on my equipment, and I don't have the level. I generally do large carves though, and usually go as far as touching the snow with my hand, but not much further. However, as this forum is dedicated to extreme carving, I was thinking of asking for advice, and as carving is what I want to do, this is the place. I've downloaded all the videos, and this technique seems extremely good My height is about 172cm, so my board is pretty short compared to my height.
Thanks for your help though, it's good to know how it seems EC was optimised with respect to snowboarding equipment.

AlpentalRider, I'd like to know more about turn radius : where can I find out mine, and what is it in relation to the board ?
Thanks for the advice for riding on ice, as for jumping, I'll try all of that when the snow comes back ( living in Moscow ). I was apparently doing many things wrong - I was jumping ( doing an ollie ), and I was extending my legs fully before absorbing the shock from the landing.
As for the board length, I'm about 5 feet 7 inches, and not so light. I've ridden a few different board lengths, and just found the response time on this one to be the best. I'm still looking for a short alpine-shaped board though, I rode a Burton alpine board of 150cm for a week and loved it.

Well, thanks for all your help
Quentin

[AlpentalRider]

I'd like to know more about turn radius : where can I find out mine, and what is it in relation to the board ?

To find out about turn radius and how it's measured, check out the boards section of the alpinecarving link above. Alot of boards have the radius printed right on them and it's measured in Meters. You can also look it up in the spec sheet for the board. My guess is that your board has a radius of around 8M. If your having a hard time finding out what the radius is, post your board info here and I'll do a web search to see if I can find it.

[István]

Just one comment on this issue. The steepness of the slopes, the quality of the snow and the parameters (mainly the radius) will define your speed provided that you are doing EC turns.

The problem of the radius is, that with a radius below 10-12 meters will result in extreme forces in the turn, which you will not be able to stand (remember what you have learnt in physics).

If I'm right, the Swoard team proposes something around 13-14 meters.


Cheers,

István

[LinkerError]

István,

Thanks for your last post, it makes sense, in a low turn radius, centripetal forces will be much higher, throwing you off the turn, am I right ? As for my turn radius, I think it would be less than 8m, as it's such a small board, but also has deepened curves for even better response. The board itself has no name on it, and it didn't come with a book or anything. I have no idea as to what model it is, and I can't find anything that could be it on the internet.

[István]

There was a posting sometime including a link of a site which conatined a handy calculator for radius and stuff like that.

Anyone remember?

István

[pokkis]

Calculator:
http://www.natew.com/frames.cgi/software/snow/html.Main

[NateW]

LinkerError, for a few years I rode freestyle/freeride boards with 45/30 degree stance angles, and liked it. Then one year I got a board with a narrower waist - about 23cm instead of the usual 25cm - and it was a huge improvement. Bringing the board's edges right under my toes and heels gave me much more control, and it made all of the same maneuvers possible with much less exertion. Everything got easier - it took less skill and it took less strength. The board felt much lighter, even though it was actually about the same weight (the board itself was lighter but I switched to heavier bindings at the same time).

So, I highly recommend finding a board that has a width suited to your your current stance. I suspect that a freestyle board will be overly wide for such high stance angles.

With jumps, how and where you land is almost entirely determined by what your body is doing at the moment you take off. If your weight is centered and your body is motionless when you take off, you will land centered. If your weight is off-center or your body is rotating in any way, you will probably rotate in the air, as a continuation of the rotation you had the moment before you left the snow.

AlpentalRider has given good advice... It will all help you keep your weight centered and your body motionless at the moment you take off. When you can do that consistently, then start working on ollies and jumps where you take off with the board on an edge (instead of flat on its base), and other variations.