What can be done to get more carvers on the slopes?

[harald]

Hi,
This topic has been discussed from time to time, but I think it is still worth a discussion for potential solutions. If there are many or few carvers may not be a problem in itself. However, more carvers on the slopes will mean a larger market and therefore more interest in developing and improving the equipment and also easier to buy. Where I live carving equipment is difficult to obtain if you are not an insider. Besides, more carvers should hopefully mean better groomed slopes and also educating the skiers better on how carvers run.
I have discussed this with some of my carving friends to sort out some of the problems that stop people from starting carving. The wider boards tendency may solve part of the problem, but is not sufficient. Who should sell this equipment if nobody is selling it and can give proper advice?
One part of the problem may be the slopes and the grooming. As it is now, many slopes are both too narrow and they are not well groomed with ridges and holes caused by the grooming machine. Anyone who has caught and edge on a ridge or stumbled in a whole or run in moguls know what that means.
Another part of the problem is where carving can be learned. Is there carving instructors around? The first runs are for most people so difficult that it is easy to give up. I know of a couple of instructors but not many.
Where can beginners test equipment? Where are the possibilies to rent proper equipment (and with instruction)?
Then there is the problem of kamikaze skiers (I am also a skier). Most of us have experienced accidents or close by accidents. I admit that I often is quite nervous when skiers are around, which dampens a lot of the excitement of the sport. Would more ski patrols help?
In some ways it is nice to be member of a little, exclusive group, but it is not good in the long run as I have pointed out. Should anything be done to promote carving and in case, what could be done?

[Neuffy]

hmm...well, I'd say... More carvers = more carvers. If I had ever seen hardbooters on the slopes (and really, I haven't) I would have made the decision to switch over much earlier, maybe 3 years earlier. As it is, I just naturally gravitated towards hardboots as I began carving more and harder with my softboots.

If there was at least one decent hardboot carver every day at every resort, that'd really really help (but how to get them first...chicken and egg dilemma)...

Most likely, I'll be at Lake Louise (in Alberta, Canada) for every day from December 1st to March 31st, with maybe two or three days missing somewhere in there. The sad thing is, this last year, every single time I've been in Lake Louise this last year, I've been the best carver on the mountain....in softboots on a freestyle board...

And not even just that I didn't actually see anybody carving better than me....I couldn't find any trenches that were deeper than mine...

Now, conceivably, a carver better than me could have been running the mountain at the same time, and just doing exactly the same carves as me, and so I saw their slightly better carves and thought they were my old ones, but realistically, no.

More carvers would be better...because that'd help with mass-producing carving equipment, and assuming they were all decently educated/didn't go the freestyle/freeride cheaper=better route, they wouldn't cause the alpine industry to go to sub-$200 (Canadian) boards...which is really quite sick...you'll outgrow a sub-$200 board in about a week of usage just beginning softboot snowboarding...

[pokkis]

I think all of us should be behaving as ambasadors of Carving in slopes. This means we should behave well and be ready to answer questions about carving and equipment. This naturally means also that we need to star behave like skiers would be humans
Another story is what would hapen if all or most soft booters and skiers would start carving, i can not have worse night mare due it means that slopes are filled with trench digging, space taking carvers and there would be no space any more for relaxed ride Think about that, one carver needs/takes more space that 6 skiers or 20 sitting freestylers
Also if people start to carve, they quickly realize how fun and easy this is and all the glory of "hard" carving is gone.

[vkrouverk]

Think about that, one carver needs/takes more space that 6 skiers or 20 sitting freestylers

If all they start to carve, then there will be 20 sitting carvers and 1 rider
But I don't think that there is need for 'Big Bang' in order to popularize carving. Slogan from green community: "Think globally, act locally" could be applied. Harald raised many questions:

• Who should sell this equipment if nobody is selling it and can give proper advice?
  where carving can be learned. Is there carving instructors around?
  Where can beginners test equipment?

There is one simple answer to such questions: local message boards. I see it working quite well in Finland: Pokkis has put up message board, where people can ask questions, sell and buy gear, agree on carving sessions and weekend gathering etc. This winter there was 4 carving sessions, where on Saturday was free-riding and filming, on Sunday race was organized + number of 'simple' week-end ridings together. Carving sessions were received very well and such gathering of many good carvers rises quite an interest in skiers and softboot-snowboarders: you could see, how during lift riding all were watching trench-diggers and in lift-line they approached and asked questions. And if you can point them right to forum (this nice sticker, which was created and is used on boards/helmets/cars, helps to advertise very well), where all questions can be answered, then there will be quite many converters. Only this year there is 40 new users registered in forum and total number or registered users is 172, (which is quite big number for country with population 5.2 million people). Of course many of them don't participate actively in forum or carving sessions, but already 20-30 carvers/racers in one resort during weekend puts up good show.
Of course global message boards (such as this one and in bomberonline) are good also (e.g. for discussing technique, as there is more brainpower involved) but local forums are better for actual action

[Mphdemon]

I really like the idea of the "think globally act locally" I've been thinking about trying to become a carving instructer at my local ski mountain for a couple of years now. But I don't always have the time, and I don't want the mountain to have me training brand new people to snowboard, that don't even want to carve. I wouldn't mind at all if they actually had some kind of interest in carving. But here, in the US, freestyle riding is such a huge part of winter sports now. It's become so popular that I don't think that there is much that could be done to pull people away from that and get them interested in carving.

The other thing is that people do see carving as "hard" even though they've never tried it, and they've never been told that it is hard. They just assume that because of how it looks. If we could come up with a way to get people to realize the simplicity of the sport then I think there would be a lot more people willing to try it in the first place. Then once we get them willing to try it, that's when we should worry about keeping them interested. Rental board would certainly help, and obviously so would instructors. But people have to think they can do it before they'll even try.

Also, what if we tried to get carving in some kind of movie. Like a Warren Miller movie, or a freestyle snowboarding movie. Just something where people who are already either skiing or snowboarding have a chance to really see how awesome the sport is. I agree that when people just see a good carver then they are compelled to at the very least, ask how they do that.

Also, even though this site and Bomber are both world wide they aren't very well known. So what if we formed links with sites outside of the sport, for example, what if we became some sort of "sister site" to a windsurfing site, or a skateboarding, or even something totally unrelated to winter sports. Just so that curious people who may click on the link find themselves at sites that they never would have found or known about.

As for the amount of room that carvers would have if there was a sudden increase in our numbers, I know that I would much rather be surrounded by carvers than skiers or freestyle boarders. Not because I think that they are bad, but I have a much easier time predicting what a carver is going to do than a skier (kamakazi in particular).

And of course the simplist way of getting more people to try it is to just keep carving, and be nice to people when they ask you questions about it.

[pete]

I totally agree with pkkis, saying carvers should behave like ambassadors. I feel exactly the same way, about skwal (www.skwalzone.org).
Carvers not only have to do the show, but IMO, have also an exempliary behaviors on slopes, chairlift... (on internet too )

Actually there's been only one post i disliked here... well part of it, it was harald's one.

when you say

As it is now, many slopes are both too narrow and they are not well groomed with ridges and holes caused by the grooming machine. Anyone who has caught and edge on a ridge or stumbled in a whole or run in moguls know what that means.

I'm frightened... would you really want to see bulldozer, scraping and destructing te moutain, just to make carving easier??
I too appreciate well groomed slopes. but about narrow ones, well just ride another one, a wider one. If there aren't. Adaptation is the keyword!

I admit that I often is quite nervous when skiers are around, which dampens a lot of the excitement of the sport. Would more ski patrols help?

Please! You know, if you're on a crowded slope, just dont go as fast as you'd like to.
It also comes back to the "ambasador" point. Dont let ppl think carvers are crazy and dangerous....
The only time i'had to deal with a ski patrol, it was in the US, and he was telling me i was going too fast. This is what 'more ski patrols' would mean for us.
In france, we're lucky enough not to have any!

Maybe (and i hoe so) i'm taking your points a little bit too much as extreme ones, so please do correct me if i understood them the wrong way.

cordially,
pete

[vkrouverk]

You know, if you're on a crowded slope, just dont go as fast as you'd like to.
It also comes back to the "ambasador" point. Dont let ppl think carvers are crazy and dangerous....

It is opposite, carvers don't go fast, but (mostly) skiers and other snowboarders. When I carve, then I go so slow, that almost everyone goes faster than me Well, maybe complete beginners and old ladies don't Of course I don't do extremecarving (which requires more speed) yet...
Actually it is not about speed, but riding trajectory, not all people know (or care), how carvers go and if someone goes directly down (as many skiers do), then they are not quite in control to avoid someone carving across slope or even upwards...

[Halfface]

Just a point about carving upwards: If you do so, you are the one that has to look out for other people coming down above you - you don't have the right of way anymore! I can't help it, but this is the rule. So always look where you're going and keep in mind what is going on above you - we carvers have a tough ride, I would buy my own slope if I had the money...

Erwin

[Mphdemon]

Right now the problem is, how can we get more carvers? I think that this problem comes first, because as it stands carvers right now aren't given the attention by other skiers or freeriders that we need. They're not going to change from Kamakazi to caring and respecting skiers because of what we say. So I think that if we can solve one problem then we can solve the other. If we get more carvers on the slopes then people won't be able to just ignore us. They'll have to take us seriosly and pay attention to what we're doing (as applies to rules of the mountian, obviosly if they are in front of you then they don't have to watch out for you, you have to watch out for them). There are skiers and free riders that are very respectful of carvers, I am one of them, when I ski I try to keep as much distance from everyone as I can. I don't bomb straight down the mountain and I don't cut people off. I think that we need to set a good example whatever sport we are doing. I mean lets face it, most skiers don't really know what they're doing, I'm probably one of them. But a lot of them think that they are because they can get from the top of the mountain to the bottom without falling and still go fast. When it comes to this sport, well, you don't take part in this sport if that is what you think is fun. But if we become a larger group of people then even skiers or other snowboarders will have to recognize us. We would become too big of a group to ignore.

So back to the original topic, What can we do to increase our numbers? I've seen a lot of companies, such as atomic and Rossignol have demo days at different mountains. what if we did something like that at each of our local mountains? Talk to some of the different carving dealers and see if we could set something up with the mountains, it would probably help their business, and it would get more people interested. We'd have to get boots for it too. And then even right from there, if some current carvers are willing then they could take people out and teach them what to do. It's more open to different people then a carving session and it will teach them how to do it so that they're not in our way. Plus it would probably do wonders for the carving industry. I don't know if this would work but, maybe at the end of the demo day then you put the boards that were used up for sale, and maybe take a little bit off the price since they've been used pretty thoroughly. I don't now if Nils or Rillet or Fivat are paying attention to this post but maybe they would be willing to give it a shot with their swoards. I would have to find out who here in the US would be willing to do this but I'm sure that I, or somebody else from over here, could find someone.