As a former softboots boarder I decided to swap to the more challenging type of boarding for this years winter. So I bought an F2 Silberpfeil in combination with the Deeluxe Indy hardboots and the Deeluxe X-bone carbon bindings (step-inn).
Unfortunately I did this purchase before I was aware of the extremecarving site. So I am a little bit concerned about the following points:
Is it possible to do the EC technique with my equipment?
Is it really a problem to carve with a minimum angle of 60 degrees for the front leg?
Are the Deeluxe bindings really that weak as mentioned?
Thanking you in advance for your comments.
Guido
Combination boots/bindings/board
Moderators: fivat, rilliet, Arnaud, nils
Hey Guido,
I ride a Silberpfeil 172 (2002/2003), my stance is 63 57 and Yes, I can EC with it. Of course not as professionally as P+J, but usually people start watching me on the slopes (if that means anything at all....)
On the other hand, I just ordered a Swoard, because all the things written on this site convinced me that the wide-board theory is right. But maybe I'm wrong...
What I surely know about Silberpfeil is that it loves nose-diving. Should the snow be a bit more soft, you'll see that.
I have also experienced that a stance of 63, 57 results in less edge-pressure in backsides, which leads to skidding sometimes.
I can also tell of Silberpfeil, that it does not like smaller bumps on the slope, and as a result it will lose grip.
In case the slopes are well groomed and not too icy but not too soft, it is a handy fellow.
Maybe J+P could ride it on any surfaces
I have a Burton race, so I do not know too much about Deelux bindings. I have read that Burton Race is week, and I am telling you, I weighted almost 100 kg last season, and it did not break, so do not believe everything you hear.
Cheers,
István
I ride a Silberpfeil 172 (2002/2003), my stance is 63 57 and Yes, I can EC with it. Of course not as professionally as P+J, but usually people start watching me on the slopes (if that means anything at all....)
On the other hand, I just ordered a Swoard, because all the things written on this site convinced me that the wide-board theory is right. But maybe I'm wrong...
What I surely know about Silberpfeil is that it loves nose-diving. Should the snow be a bit more soft, you'll see that.
I have also experienced that a stance of 63, 57 results in less edge-pressure in backsides, which leads to skidding sometimes.
I can also tell of Silberpfeil, that it does not like smaller bumps on the slope, and as a result it will lose grip.
In case the slopes are well groomed and not too icy but not too soft, it is a handy fellow.
Maybe J+P could ride it on any surfaces
I have a Burton race, so I do not know too much about Deelux bindings. I have read that Burton Race is week, and I am telling you, I weighted almost 100 kg last season, and it did not break, so do not believe everything you hear.
Cheers,
István
Hi Guido,
i can agree to Istvan. The Burton race is not as stiff as a TD2 or Cateks binding but i also weight over 100kg (193cm tall) and have never broken my Burton race binding riding an Nitro race board. So you can figure it out how the board+binding combination you have reacts in different snow conditions and if it fits your riding style.
Maybe you can try a Swoard on the next EC meeting to have a direct comparison.
Greets
Tommaso
i can agree to Istvan. The Burton race is not as stiff as a TD2 or Cateks binding but i also weight over 100kg (193cm tall) and have never broken my Burton race binding riding an Nitro race board. So you can figure it out how the board+binding combination you have reacts in different snow conditions and if it fits your riding style.
Maybe you can try a Swoard on the next EC meeting to have a direct comparison.
Greets
Tommaso
Hey István,
Thanks a lot for your quick reply.
Although not all of your experiences with the silberpfeil are very good I will surely take advantages of your comments.
What's the main benefit from a wide-board regarding the wide-board theory?
I do have another question regarding the expression "skidding".
What do you exactly mean?
Thanks in advance
Guido
Thanks a lot for your quick reply.
Although not all of your experiences with the silberpfeil are very good I will surely take advantages of your comments.
What's the main benefit from a wide-board regarding the wide-board theory?
I do have another question regarding the expression "skidding".
What do you exactly mean?
Thanks in advance
Guido
Guido,
i copy the explanation from the Swoard page for reference because i am not sure you already read this:
Waist width: if you want to ride on the edge with the board inclined at nearly 90 degrees, your feet must not raise beyond the board! To meet this condition with the today alpine boards whose waist widths are about 190 mm, it is necessary to have high angulation (more than 60 degrees). Unfortunately, this position makes the rider's body stiff and disturbs him toward his board mobility: it is difficult to go down on the knees without going back and furthermore, the rotation turn is more difficult to do. That's why the snowboard must be wide.
Skidding means you lose edge contact with the snow and your board is gliding and not carving on the edge.
Hope it helps.
Cheers
Tommaso
i copy the explanation from the Swoard page for reference because i am not sure you already read this:
Waist width: if you want to ride on the edge with the board inclined at nearly 90 degrees, your feet must not raise beyond the board! To meet this condition with the today alpine boards whose waist widths are about 190 mm, it is necessary to have high angulation (more than 60 degrees). Unfortunately, this position makes the rider's body stiff and disturbs him toward his board mobility: it is difficult to go down on the knees without going back and furthermore, the rotation turn is more difficult to do. That's why the snowboard must be wide.
Skidding means you lose edge contact with the snow and your board is gliding and not carving on the edge.
Hope it helps.
Cheers
Tommaso
Hey Tomasso,
Thanks a lot for your help and information.
Because I will start practising EC/C with my new gear earliest the end of March I want to collect the right information to be prepared for the unknown.
So if you have anymore information that could help me please tell me.
Thank you
Best regards
Guido
Thanks a lot for your help and information.
Because I will start practising EC/C with my new gear earliest the end of March I want to collect the right information to be prepared for the unknown.
So if you have anymore information that could help me please tell me.
Thank you
Best regards
Guido
Guido,
Tomasso is right.
The key is in the angulation, which together with your foot size defines the minimum width. Also read: viewtopic.php?t=650.
There was also a discussion on the relation between high/low angles and edge pressure in backsides. But could not find it unfortunately
Anyway, outcome of the conversation was that higher angulation leads to less pressure on backside edge. (anyone correct me if I'm wrong) 
Do U use a heel-lift? If yes, this site will also suggest you to ride 'flat', meaning forget heel-lifts. I can not comment on that one, but I will definetely try my new swoard without a heel-lift to see what happens.
I think the following summary is the most fair to say from Jacques:
---------------CUT-HERE------------------
Hi everyone,
Just a few comments about the discussion:
Our angulation "rule" has several reasons but of course are not a "universal" rule.
1- snowboard feeling: For us snowboarding means having the feet side by side on the board, not one behind the other that is water monoski feeling. So the question is: what is the minimum angulation that still gives us a snowboarding feeling? For us, 55° to the front foot. This is just totally subjective.
2- riding ability: high angulation limits the body mobility on the board. It also limits the way you can adjust the board inclination during a turn by bending the knies. 55° is a kind of limit we have experimented where we sill have this mobility. So as cmachine said, we found our optimal angulation compromise, then we choosed the board width that prevents the boots to touch the snow during EC turns.
3- At the beginning of Extremecarving.com people asked us for our EC technique. We have described what we have found and what works for us. But these are not absolute rules. We know peoples that need different feet angulations because they just feel bad with our. There body has a different shape and need different settings.
The conclusion of this is that people who want to ride exactly like us should use the same settings. But there are situations where it is not possible. ie: small people with very big feet.
Jacques
---------------CUT-HERE------------------
So, that's all I could tell you, hope I could help, but there are many great riders on this site, much better than me, so they might give you some other piece of advice.
Cheers and carve low,
István
Tomasso is right.
The key is in the angulation, which together with your foot size defines the minimum width. Also read: viewtopic.php?t=650.
There was also a discussion on the relation between high/low angles and edge pressure in backsides. But could not find it unfortunately
Anyway, outcome of the conversation was that higher angulation leads to less pressure on backside edge. (anyone correct me if I'm wrong) Do U use a heel-lift? If yes, this site will also suggest you to ride 'flat', meaning forget heel-lifts. I can not comment on that one, but I will definetely try my new swoard without a heel-lift to see what happens.
I think the following summary is the most fair to say from Jacques:
---------------CUT-HERE------------------
Hi everyone,
Just a few comments about the discussion:
Our angulation "rule" has several reasons but of course are not a "universal" rule.
1- snowboard feeling: For us snowboarding means having the feet side by side on the board, not one behind the other that is water monoski feeling. So the question is: what is the minimum angulation that still gives us a snowboarding feeling? For us, 55° to the front foot. This is just totally subjective.
2- riding ability: high angulation limits the body mobility on the board. It also limits the way you can adjust the board inclination during a turn by bending the knies. 55° is a kind of limit we have experimented where we sill have this mobility. So as cmachine said, we found our optimal angulation compromise, then we choosed the board width that prevents the boots to touch the snow during EC turns.
3- At the beginning of Extremecarving.com people asked us for our EC technique. We have described what we have found and what works for us. But these are not absolute rules. We know peoples that need different feet angulations because they just feel bad with our. There body has a different shape and need different settings.
The conclusion of this is that people who want to ride exactly like us should use the same settings. But there are situations where it is not possible. ie: small people with very big feet.
Jacques
---------------CUT-HERE------------------
So, that's all I could tell you, hope I could help, but there are many great riders on this site, much better than me, so they might give you some other piece of advice.
Cheers and carve low,
István