longitudinal stiffness

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taxon77
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longitudinal stiffness

Post by taxon77 » Saturday 24 January 2004, 4:45

hi everybody,

I read about longitudinal stiffness of the board on this homepage, and wondered, because until now I thought quite the opposite of what I read .
I rode a Nidecker Extreme, and I felt like it performed better on hard snow as it was new (as it had more stiffness), and performed better on soft snow, as it was visibly weaker.
Now I bought a HOT Blast and made my worst experience on soft snow. I only could manage this conditions by setting my bindings as much back as it was possible. The whole day was no fun and I got in doubt of my skills. As I said before, until now, my adjudgement therefor was, the stiffer the board, the worse it performes on soft snow, because it´s digging too deep with it´s nose (e.g. the stiff Pogo´s are famous for their icegrip)...
My question is now: should I quit my "snowboard-career" because of loss of capability, or should I blame my HOT for my problems... :cry:

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rankov
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Post by rankov » Saturday 24 January 2004, 11:29

hi taxon77,
digging too deep with it´s nose
a friend of mine (olaf aka cmachine, member of the forum) had the same problem as you when he rode an F2 Silberpfeil. The board was so narrow and stiff, that in soft snow conditions the nose was constantly digging...

i can assure you: with a SWOARD under your feets you won't experience such problems any more. the swoard allows you to manage perfectly soft snow conditions and gives you an incredible grip on icy slopes!

boris

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nils
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Stiffness and snow grip

Post by nils » Saturday 24 January 2004, 11:52

Actually you point out the main problem people face!

We are all looking for a board that grips on soft snow, and also grips on very hard snow. Basically (it was explained here and various forums also) the harder the flex, the less comfortable and efficient it will be on hard snow. The reason why is simple> on very hard snow, the edge tends to bump on every little harder part, or ice parts, then it tends to get ejected out of the "rail". What you look for ideally in this situation is an edge that would act as a bumper, and make stick to the snow, whatever shape the snow has under it. The problem with very stiff boards in that situation (and it is also the case with very torsionnaly stiff tips) is that the "bumper" effect is very small, like that of a race car that would tend to jump on every small bumps on the road. On the opposite side, a softer flexed board with softer torsion on the tips will be able to stick to the hard snow, absorb much more bumps in the edge, and conduct the board all the way without risk of skidding.

The problem is on soft snow, like fresh groomed powder, the soft flexes tend to go too deep in the snow, because they oppose not enough resistance to the soft snow. Here the edge plays a smaller role, its more the longitunal stiffness that has one. A harder flex will be a good opposition to the soft snow, and be able to resist and conduct the turn with ease.

Thus the complexity! You want a board with a flex that is good on soft and hard snow ! With a great torsion resistance to be able to carve an edge.
We believe the solution is to separate the flex stiffness from the torsion stiffness, and make a board with a mid flex with high torsion resistance.
Thus the importance of a flex that is adapted to the weight/size range of each rider. Basically what we have with the Swoard is a board with the same feeling for the rider, be the rider 165cm or 195cm tall with huge weight variations. This way the way the edge bites the snow on lets say hard snow is the same on the 161 than on the 175.

The problem you encountered with the blast might be because the snow was really too soft, then no other board would have been able to carve low. Or that because of the very stiff tips of the board, there was no way for it to let go the nose above the snow surface, and the more you pressed, the deeper it dug into it.
The Hot blast is basically a race board meant to be used on hard snow with gates, it is not meant to carve low in soft snow!

Hope this helps, jacques already wrote something on the forum on the flexes but cannot find it!

N.

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cmachine
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Post by cmachine » Saturday 24 January 2004, 12:48

Nils: very nice, detailed description.
Hope this helps, jacques already wrote something on the forum on the flexes but cannot find it!
I found a thread where Jacques is also talking about this:
viewtopic.php?t=413

Read the 5th topic in this thread.

And Boris, you are right. My F2 Silberpfeil was very bad in soft snow. (nose digging). The Silberspfeil was the worst board I've ever had. After riding the Silberfpeil, I got it back to the dealer and changed it to a Nidecker Proto. The Nidecker Proto was better in all aspects. When trying EC there where still (very) little nose problems. But they disappeard with the SWOARD. On the SWOARD I NEVER had problems with "nose-digging"

Olaf

taxon77
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Post by taxon77 » Saturday 24 January 2004, 20:52

hello again,
at first a great thank´s to all of you! Now I know much more about this topic, and feel more confirmed not to loose passion... :D
yours
Tom

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István
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Post by István » Monday 26 January 2004, 16:56

I must admit Nils' points are true and really detaield. It made me understand the issue more deeply and highlighted a few points about my equipment.

I ride an F2 Silberpfeil with a Conshox system. I do not agree with Boris that this would be the worst board on mother Earth, but I have to admit, that if the snow is soft it starts digging. If it is icy with small bumps, it is not easy to keep it in the rail.

But if the conditions are better, than it can be a really friendly partner in carving unbelievable marks into the snow. Stiff, stable good edge grip (filed to 88 degrees) and very fast.


Cheers,

István

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rcrobar
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Body Weight and Board Flex

Post by rcrobar » Tuesday 27 January 2004, 16:52

Hi Nils
jacques already wrote something on the forum on the flexes but cannot find it!
I think this is the post you were talking about.

viewtopic.php?t=413

Rob

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