To the Kings of EC

[Bobby Buggs]

Patrice and Jacques you both Truely inspire us to ride like you. I cant say enough how much I like the movies. The last one showed some really great steep parts with a cool camera angle. Keep providing us something to strive for.

No Im not sucking up!!

[fivat]

Thank you! You are an

Since you are moreover American, will you be at the SES in Aspen, Colorado?
Nils and I (not Jacques ) will be present: --> click here!

Patrice Fivat

[Bobby Buggs]

I would Love have a Bier with you at SES but I have a family holiday to SteamBoat springs Feb 1. I am dissapointed that I will mis your visit.
Next year I will pay closer attention to the SES schedual.

From watching all your video I can see that Jacques has become much smoother with the EC. Is it the SWOARD?? Not that he was not good before

[rilliet]

Hi Bobby Buggs,

From watching all your video I can see that Jacques has become much smoother with the EC. Is it the SWOARD?? Not that he was not good before

I always try to ride the smoother I can. Probably that I have progressed, but the Swoard helps me a lot, it works better than my previous prototype. The Bomber TD1 help me a lot too. I close them very loose, so that I can move freely on the board and during the turns I can put a huge force on the edge.

Now I'm waiting for a pair of TD2 that I hope, will allow me to close them thighter but keeping the same liberty. Perhaps it will even be possible to use them in step-in configuration (that is way too stiff with the TD1).

Jacques

[cmachine]

Hi Jacques

I close them very loose

Aren't you afraid they will open if they are so loose?

Olaf

[rilliet]

Hi Olaf,

Aren't you afraid they will open if they are so loose?

Yes, I was at the beginning. But it never happened.

Jacques

[Bobby Buggs]

From watching the last Video you just look alot softer or should I say less rigid in your transitions. Not that I can do better, just that I notice you are smoother in the last Video and it looks Great. Please Keep making the films so I can watch.

[rilliet]

Another thing that helps me a lot to ride smoother is to relax when riding.
I noticed that I unconsciously rode with my muscles too stiff. Now I try to relax all of them and use the needed ones only. This gives a much smoother feeling and is way less exhausting.

The breathing is very important too. I try to keep it the most regular as possible, especially during strong efforts like EC turns.

Jacques

[vkrouverk]

The breathing is very important too. I try to keep it the most regular as possible, especially during strong efforts like EC turns.

What, you mean, that EC turns ain't coming just like that, but need strong effort from you?
Then what mere mortals (like me) should do Will it require enormous efforts then?
j/k, of course this pre-season waiting (19 more days) and preparation (mentally) for coming season (watching videos, physical and stretch training) ain't substitution for riding by any means

[rilliet]

What, you mean, that EC turns ain't coming just like that, but need strong effort from you?

Yes, after 15 or more linked EC turns, I begin to feel my legs burning a little bit.
EC is a sport!

Will it require enormous efforts then?

No, not at all, I was just talking about how to improve the technique and movements, how to ride smoother and save some energy, because I'm a mortal too.

Jacques

[vkrouverk]

No wonder, that legs will burn with such turns, e.g. according to diagram from http://www.bomberonline.com/articles/physics.cfm when during true carving with 13m sidecut radius board carve is performed with edge angle 75 degrees, then turn radius will be 4 meters, speed ca. 11 m/s and centrifugal acceleration will be a=v^2/r=11^2/4 = 30m/s^2! Its like carrying 2 perons with same weight
Seems like time for more squats

[fivat]

vkrouverk, physics is much more complicated in extremecarving! Other equations need to be written, if possible. The article is good and show interesting things using basic physics . But, for example:

1) The formula (R = turn radius, C = sidecut radius, and theta = edge angle) is no more valid with angles of about 80-90°. Indeed with theta = 90°, one gets R = 0 !

2) When the body is laid on the snow, there are other forces acting because of the contact with the ground: on the arms, hips, etc.

3) A more sophisticated theory has to take into account legs dynamics. As mentioned in the article, we can pump the turns. In an extremecarved turn, one controls with the legs the pressure on the edge from the (early) start to the end of the turn: "push-pull" technique. Check this thread out: viewtopic.php?t=453 . The centrifugal force (well, as a purist I prefer to talk about centripetal force) should be indeed high at the end of the turn (one could get maybe an acceleration of 30 m/s^2 ), but at this moment we "pull" the board and the legs don't have to sustain too high forces.

Anyway, more squats is good

[cmachine]

Hi vkrouverk

I agree with Patrice. The Bomber article takes only a few variables into account and is on a very basic level. The major disadvantage of the Bomber model : It does not take any dynamics into account at all (it is pure static model). At least to me, carving is a very dynamic sport, isn’t it?

Further: The very complex movements of the person who carves the board are neglected (e.g. the push-pull movements in EC-style that has a large impact on the centripetal force). In fact, the push pull makes you able to control this force in a certain bandwidth.

To my opinion it is hard to build an accurate model with all variables. There would be two ways to do this:
1) Make a discrete model or 2) make a finite element analysis.
Both models should be dynamic models.
Because of the complex movements, it will take a lot of time to develop this………

So, it’s better to spend this time in the snow.

Regards
Olaf

[vkrouverk]

Not only extreme carving is complicated, whole life is
I know, that these formulas work on paper only. And they are for true carve, where whole edge is in contact with snow and traverses through same points at all time. But if board is put on very steep edge angle (near 90 degrees), then center of board will not be in contact with snow, instead only tip and tail will be. This explains, why one can still carve with nearly 90 degree edge angle (or carve at higher speeds, than sidecut dictates).
I read this push-pull technique thread (as all other threads here) and it was great reading, helping to understand technique better. I hope to try extreme carving truly this year out, last year was first one on on hard gear and I didn't feel so good yet. But I have great learning material and examples to learn from

So, it’s better to spend this time in the snow

Easy to say, if you write from Switzerland But I live in place flat as pancake and have to make long trip to mountains At least it snows here now and I hope to perform some cross-country skiing tomorrow. It ain't same as boarding, but good for general condition (makes 95 % of muscles work) and helps with balance little bit. Poor man's substitution

[cmachine]

Hello vkrouverk

Easy to say, if you write from Switzerland ... At least it snows here now and I hope to perform some cross-country skiing tomorrow.

Then you actually can see more snow than I do . Most of the ski and board resorts are still closed in switzerland.

So enjoy your cross-country event

regards
Olaf